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Dr. Robin Stern: Welcome to The Gaslight Effect podcast. I'm Robin Stern, co-founder and associate director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence, and author of the bestselling book, the Gaslight Effect. I'm an educator and a psychoanalyst, but first and foremost, I'm a wife, a mother, a sister, aunt, and healer. And just like many of you, I was a victim of gaslighting. Please join me for each episode as I interview fascinating guests and explore the concept of gaslighting. You'll learn what it truly means to be gaslighted, how it feels, how to recognize it, and how to understand it, and ultimately, how to get out of it.
Dr. Robin Stern: Before we begin, I want you to know that talking about gaslighting can bring up challenging and painful emotions. Give yourself permission to feel them. Some of you may wanna go more deeply with your emotions. While some of you may hold them more lightly, no matter what you're feeling, know that your emotions are a guide to your inner life. Your emotions are sacred and uniquely you respect and embrace them for they have information to give you. If you want to listen to other episodes of the Gaslight Effect Podcast, you can find them@robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for being here with me.
Dr. Robin Stern: Welcome everyone to this episode of the Gaslight Effect podcast. I'm thrilled to have with me this morning my dear friends Mark Bracket Racio Martinez, and, um, their film America Unfiltered. I'm also honored to have been a part of that film from the very beginning. I'm a producer, and I'm delighted that we're gonna be able to include scenes from the film when we send this podcast out to all of you to listen to and watch. America Unfiltered is an incredible effort and labor of love filmed by Racio and his colleague and our friend, IL Milov Racio, 30 years in America, originally from Panama Caril, four years in America, originally from Russia. And they took a journey in a little, what I call toy car across America, uh, and encountered people and approached people on the street, in their businesses, in their homes, were ultimately invited in to participate in America in a way that we couldn't have even imagined.
Dr. Robin Stern: And the results are stunning. They're really an a, an exploration of the humanity at the very basic level, in beautiful connections with many people through the Southern while traveling the southern route across America from Los Angeles to New York City. So, cio, an honor to have you here is my honor, honor as well. I'm gonna start with you, Racio. So, when you were making the film America Unfiltered, and as it was evolving into the incredible movie and, and storytelling, um, epic, it is an epic storytelling piece that it is, what were you thinking you'd like people to take away from this film? What were you wanting them to notice about America? What was a primary goal of doing the, the film in this particular way where your stories were unscripted, their stories were unscripted, your questions might have been initially scripted, but then took on a life of their own. So in this unfiltered narrative, what are you hoping people will hear?
Horacio Marquinez: Well, thank you, Robin. Thank you. Thank you for beautiful introduction. The, um, the film started, the conditions of the film is what really start the, uh, the journey. Um, we were in the middle of Covid. We were all trapped in our homes. Well, we were in, uh, in Connecticut, and I needed to take the moment to see for my, for my own eyes what was happening outside. We were in, during Covid, we were in election year, and I, I thought, uh, we are filmmakers. I should take a camera and, and see on, uh, for my own eyes, I felt that we were just being, um, the message, the, the messages that we were receiving were one-sided message, and I needed to see what, what, what was out there. And we started in California because we, I, I used to having a, an apartment in Los Angeles.
Horacio Marquinez: My, my, my, uh, basic career is a cinema photographer for movies. And, um, I had an a, an apartment in an in the Mini Cooper in, in LA sitting there for four months. And I thought, well, it's a moment to just go pick up the car live. A very original intention was just to pick up the car and, and drive across the country for two, three weeks and, and, and do a little photo journal. Um, but as I was preparing, and I, on my way to Los Angeles, I, I text Rio, uh, who is also a filmmaker who was a accomplished filmmaker, um, an an editor and a director. And I wanted to, uh, I wanted to him to, to come with me. We, we met in Los Angeles a couple years before. And, um, and I said, well, let's just go, let's do this this way.
Horacio Marquinez: It will be a short travel. And as, and it, it started evolving very, very quickly. The ideas started to, we started being bombarded with, uh, with ideas because it was, uh, the moment was the, the moment was, uh, very special. The moment was, was it felt that something was cooking beyond ourselves. Something was, was bigger than ourselves, and we wanted to, uh, to capture this moment in history at the United States. So, um, as, as the idea was ev EE evolving, it took us about, uh, it took us about, it took us about a month to quickly prepare, um, which, uh, in the big scheme of things, uh, one month is pretty much not enough. But we knew that we needed to get on the road very fairly quickly. Um, and the main purpose, uh, that I wanted to, uh, accomplish was, let's get on the road.
Horacio Marquinez: Let's see what's happening outside. Let's talk to people, and let's try to only listen. I am very aware that, and that we were coming from New York, from Los Angeles. We were living in a very particular bubble, uh, and not complete reality of what everything else is out there. And, um, fairly quickly we realized that, um, we needed just to listen. Uh, I myself, I, I, I know that we are, we are, um, sometimes so full of ourself thinking that, okay, I'm carrying my reality, so you are wrong. And let me explain to you why you're wrong, and let me, let me explain to you what you need to do. And I, I really think that that was not the right approach to going to outside into a documentary. Uh, our main goal was, let's go out, let's find people literally out of the streets, and let's listen to people's stories. And that's what we did.
Dr. Robin Stern: You're speaking so eloquently about like what you were thinking and, and the, um, your brainstorming. And I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about, uh, what inside of you, all of these things resonated with. Like, were you living with that kind of curiosity about your fellow Americans? Did you have questions for years that, that somehow this movie allowed you to live your way into the answers? You know, I, I'm so curious. Tell me about what was happening inside of you.
Horacio Marquinez: Um,
Dr. Robin Stern: Did something wake up? Did something call to you?
Horacio Marquinez: It is, it, it, it's always been a, uh, a, a a, it's always been a small voice, uh, af at the moment that I arrived to United States, um, 30 years ago, I came to film. I came to United States to go to film school. Um, my goal was to become a filmmaker. And I did, uh, I went, I came to New York. I went to Columbia University, finished my masters in, in, in, and my career started right up, right out of film school as a cinema photographer. Um, I never felt that I encountered a gigantic cultural shock. My transition was somehow, um, smooth. Um, I, when, when I arrived to New York City, I felt pretty much that that was where I needed to be. It was, it was very natural to me. Um, and as a cinematographer working in movies, I travel throughout United States constantly. So I've been in many, many cities and United States, and I've been very, very aware that the world, uh, United, United States is not New York.
Horacio Marquinez: Um, which is interesting, in contrast with my, uh, friend Carillo, who came from, uh, from, uh, Russia, from Moscow directly to Los Angeles. And he only lived for three years in Los Angeles. And he did have, in his concept of America, that, oh, Los Angeles is pretty much like the rest of the United States. So in, in that sense, as we were traveling, it was a very interesting dialogue and very interest and interesting, um, uh, comparison between the two of us. Uh, but, but that question of America is always been in, in, in inside of me, because I never felt that I, it, that I was an American. I, I mean, I was born and raised in, in Panama and I being Panamanian, and I still consider myself Penny, penny million pretty much. Um, and, but they, uh, but I have always noticed that in the United States, people can become American in a way that is different from other places.
Horacio Marquinez: Um, and that I have experienced. 'cause I also travel pretty much around the world as a cinematographer. So I, I have the opportunity to see for 30 something years, um, the, the contrast between United States and, and the rest of the world. The world, and between United States, between the coast and the rest of the, um, the what America is. Um, and I, as I, as I mentioned, I never thought I was going to be, I never considered myself an, uh, an American. However, after this film, after I concluded this film, after being with this film for four years, um, believe it or not, this, it's already 2020, almost 2025, um, after, um, is, um, one of the things, this project, the, the, the way of this project was created, um, and the way like, okay, I'm going to do this project. I'm gonna get into car.
Horacio Marquinez: I'm gonna turn camera. I'm gonna make a movie that is the most American thing that we could possible do. Um, that freedom and that com, that idea of, of being free to just come up with an idea. You are your friends, support you, you find friends who listen to what you want to accomplish, and you have an enormous support. And, um, I'm not sure I could have done that in, in, if I were to say in Panama, for example. And, and Cillo himself, he, Cillo says it, he, he is a hundred percent sure that this could not happen in Moscow. Um, 'cause going across Russia and start interviewing people out of the street, Hey, uh, you feel like Russian, um, you probably would not survive a life of for too long. But the question ask, going back to the what was going on in my, in my head, this is an idea that, um, is, is being, um, within me for many, many years when we were preparing for the film, um, these ideas, uh, were quickly, uh, my friends, including you, Robin, helped me to, or help us, to, to construct the, uh, uh, to, to create a structure that will help us to carry across the United States a across the, the, the, the, the, the, the road.
Horacio Marquinez: Um, and I try to, and, and that, that helped us to, to, to keep it through line on, on, on our, on our story, uh, in the characters helped us to, to give it the essence and to demonstrate that the true line had a, had a lot of meaning. And what's interesting is, the more I show in the film, the more people seeing the film, the all, all this, all this, all this, all this, the, the essence, it just really comes out, uh, of the film. And I, I, like, I'm really surprised every time I, I, um, screen the film with the, the ideas that people come up with. And I sometimes, like, is this really is in the movie? And then it is, you know, people see things that I was not expecting to see.
Dr. Robin Stern: And you talked about the characters in the film, and I'd love to, to, uh, I'd love for you to tell our listeners how you and Caril became the stars of the film, because watching you and being with you through this journey is part of the, the joy of taking this journey across America, um, and experiencing America unfiltered. So how did you decide to do that?
Horacio Marquinez: Uh, that was, that came out in the editing process. Um, we both, both of us, uh, IL and I and myself, we were completely against having us to be in the film. Um, I didn't, we did not, or originally we thought that putting ourself in the film would be a, uh, um, you know, self-serving, or it would be do not a a more of Instagram. Look at me, I'm here, look at me. I'm there like, you know, selfies kind of idea. Um, however, uh, and we did, uh, we spend, uh, it spent eight months, uh, cutting, uh, one, the very original version of the film. And, uh, we put ourself a little bit in the film. Uh, in the movie. We, we started the, uh, the, the intro, and then we disappear, and we just showing. And, um, the more we were testing the film, we were showing the film to filmmakers, our friends, everything was among friends.
Horacio Marquinez: Um, our dears and the incredible intellectual friends they did. Um, they kept pushing like, we wanna see you guys. Uh, luckily, luckily, luckily, we did shoot, we did film ourself, um, because, uh, you know, as filmmakers, we all, we, we used to take film everything around us, no matter what. Um, uh, but, um, I, but you know, it just did not wanna be a self-serving film. However, the more, and, and, and also luckily, after being a nine, during nine months on, on, on the road, we learned to listen. Uh, and, um, so we were, we started listening to the feedback that people are saying and people saying, we want to see you guys, not because, um, we are pretty, which we are.
Dr. Robin Stern: Well, you are, but
Horacio Marquinez:
Dr. Robin Stern: Well, the impact of your doing it in that way allowed us to be in that car with you during your tense moments, during your funny moments, um, allowed us to go with you to the hotels, to people's homes, to church services. I mean, we as viewers, and I've seen the movie many times, and I love it and learn every time. Um, but I feel like I'm there with you, and it's very powerful.
Horacio Marquinez: Thank
Dr. Robin Stern: You. But now I'm gonna turn my attention and our attention and, um, our listeners, now I'm gonna ask Mark Brackett, world renowned expert in emotional intelligence. Um, so what is emotional intelligence Mark, have to say about, uh, and what do you have to say about the power of emotional intelligence to bridge the many divides that show up in this movie to, to understand how we live in a country that we're all Americans, and yet so completely diverse.
Dr. Marc Brackett: You know, if you watch the film, you'll see that CIO's primary goal was to be a listener. That was like a big theme throughout the whole film. You know, I'm here to listen. He says that repeatedly. And I think that's a big part of being emotionally intelligent, because, you know, we, we tend to judge people immediately by their facial expressions, by their behavior. We're biased because of our own race, religion, our political, um, beliefs. And, you know, that impairs us from connecting with people. And what I think is beautiful about the film is that you have two immigrants running across America, asking people questions that are provocative about, you know, what does it mean to be an American? How does it feel to live here today? What are your perceptions about love? You know, all these kinds of very intimate personal questions, and yet everyone wanted to spend time with them, you know, and answer those questions.
Dr. Marc Brackett: Meaning some of the interviews lasted three hours, four hours long. Beautiful stories of people who, um, really do live very different lives than the lives that we currently live. And, um, while you may go in, um, thinking, oh, this person is, you know, full of anger or full of, you know, um, despair because of the circumstances that they're living, um, in, um, once you get to know them, you realize that they're humans and they have lots of feelings, and they have parents, and they had different kinds of upbringings, and some of them had very tragic experiences, but yet still feel tremendous hope.
Dr. Robin Stern: So it's so interesting to, to hear you talk about how the experience of the movie itself is an experience in emotional intelligence like Raio and, and Carell lived those questions with people who are answering them, and that teaches us something in and of itself. And I remember one moment in the film that I, I always, um, tear up when I see it time and time again, where you are in the gun shop, and, um, the, uh,
Horacio Marquinez: Michael Michael owner Yes.
Dr. Robin Stern: And he was tearful. He was tearful when he is describing his parent, his dad, right? Was it his dad? Yeah, he was family. And you don't think about that, right? When you think about somebody with guns, you don't think about guns as perhaps being, um, a pastime between a father and a son. And maybe I don't feel good about that, but they feel good about that. And knowing that, knowing them and knowing that and knowing what it means to them offers a different perspective. And you don't have to agree with that perspective. You don't have to agree with what they do or how they teach their sons. Um, and many of us don't. But respecting the fact that it's more to them than the symbol of violence, or, uh, it's other to them than the symbol of violence.
Horacio Marquinez: I ask him, I ask him directly in the film, I ask him directly on camera about the violence, about the school shooting. And he has a perspective. Um, and particularly Michael, this is, this is one of our first interviews. Our first, um, we, well, when we left Los Angeles, we were still thinking that we were going to be on the road about three weeks. Um, three weeks later we were still in Vegas. Um, because we were just finding this extraordinary people and places and, and, and, uh, characters that we just, I, we couldn't just, we couldn't move. And one of the, the, the very important goal for us was we, we need to find, we need to talk to people and find people that, um, find our characters and find, um, the, the, the meat of, of what we were doing in every place. Uh, the film was not going to be, uh, a, uh, a travel lodge.
Horacio Marquinez: So we were, it was not like, and we were here, we were here, we were here, we were here. It's just like, it, it will lose very quickly. The, it, it will look very quickly. The, the, the, the, the impact, um, will quickly decided that we'll stay in as long as it needed to be as we were traveling. Um, um, so we left Los Angeles, I'm sorry, we left Los Angeles and Vegas Las Vegas. And then we went to Arizona. And the first place that, I mean, we literally, I, I, we were the, the, the, the idea was, okay, we are in Arizona, this is gun gun country. I need, we need to find a gun shop. And literally just walk in. And we did, we just walk into the gun shop and we see this bald rocketed guy with the gigantic beer that was color and purple and pink.
Horacio Marquinez: Uh, later, we know that it was just his, uh, granddaughter's paint that his beer and, and pink and purple, because they were girls, and he had no problem with that. Um, but we did not know that this is, this is a guy that we say, Hey, um, we wanna talk to you. This is my friend from Russia. I'm Russia, I'm from Panama, and we're gonna put a camera in your face, and we're gonna ask you, so we're gonna ask you questions. Cut to, um, uh, several, several, uh, actually it was, it was like after an an hour of, uh, conversation, um, following this structure, questions that we had. One of the ideas also in the interviews is, uh, was okay, not, not to, just to follow structure of question one, which is two. Question three is it was it, they were all in my head.
Horacio Marquinez: They were already in my head, my ideas, and then how I can just like, uh, travel through the, um, the concepts and, and see what we're getting, what I get in respond. And that will guide me to, to go somewhere places and, uh, don't know what, how I get to talk to him about his father. And he quickly opened up and opened up about how his relationship with the father was, you know, was very troubled. Uh, his father was an alcoholic drug abuser. Um, and the own, the one thing that connected with his father was the, that gun shop. He opened that gun shop with his father and us. This guy, this dude, rugged, you know, gun owner, um, from, from team in Arizona is saying that he is tear. I, I just couldn't believe it.
Dr. Robin Stern: Still,
Horacio Marquinez: Still, still. I just still feel it, you know? And, um, we spend, we, we spent two days with them, with them. Um,
Dr. Robin Stern: And at the end of your, your questions, and at the end of his storytelling, you see him as a son who loved his father, who wanted more, who was disappointed, and a and a father who loved his own children.
Horacio Marquinez: Yes.
Dr. Robin Stern: And that's your takeaway that that human experience. Yes. So I wonder, mark, um, back to you, what is all these very raw narratives, how does that help people to become more aware of themselves in listening as we, as with the movies out there now in the libraries of all universities, uh, courtesy of Canopy Films, um, you can watch it through any university library, and as people are watching it, and as we screen it in more and more places, uh, how do audiences benefit? How does their emotional awareness, uh, how is it lifted by listening to the narratives of the people Porazio interviewed?
Horacio Marquinez: Mm-hmm
Dr. Marc Brackett: You know, one is that the only way I think any of us can grow is by listening to people that don't think like us and act like us and live like us. And that's exactly what Raio and Kil did. As a matter of fact. What's interesting, you know, as a professor at Yale, you know, I know a lot of people because of the work I do in schools around the world and United States, and connected rasia to a lot of people that were like me, you know, university professors who study these kinds of phenomenon. And while those interviews that they did were interesting, they just didn't really, they weren't that interesting because, you know, these were people who all had the same degree and taught these classes, and they were coming at it from a very intellectual perspective. And that was actually not what they wanted.
Dr. Marc Brackett: They, they really wanted kind of raw America, um, which proved to be much more interesting, you know, as I say, as the academic here today,
Dr. Marc Brackett: You know, they see someone with a gun and they see, they immediately see that person as being cold, you know, and not warm. They see, um, you know, a person who looks like they're living in pretty, um, difficult conditions, and they think that person, you know, is less confident, you know, um, et cetera. And I think it's very eye-opening for people to, to have those kinds of experiences. Because like I said, you know, we're biased in general because of, you know, our own, um, life experiences. You know, I grew up in northern New Jersey in a town that was very Irish, Catholic and white. And so my exposure to like culture
Dr. Marc Brackett: And, you know, then I moved to New York City and was like, wow, there's, this is weird. This is different. And then, you know, ashian CIL got to travel across the entire United States, going to pockets of the country that many people never get to visit, including the Appalachian Mountains, you know, interviewing moms whose kids were murdered by the police, interviewing people who, you know, were kind of disowned by their families because of their gender identity or sexual orientation. I mean, the list goes on in terms of the people they got to meet. And, um, I think for us to grow as a person, as a people, and for our society to grow, we need to expose ourselves and, um, and hear people's stories. And that's exactly, you know, what, they did
Dr. Robin Stern: It, it's so incredible. Racio, you know, many people could be in a position of asking questions, but not as many people would be in a position of people giving you the kind of vulnerable open answers that you were able to, to walk into and were able to listen to. And how did you do it? Like, how did you create a space for people? What did you do that people told you about their lives and opened up to you?
Horacio Marquinez: Well, there is, I mean, there's a reality that we cannot not be biased. We are people, we are humans. We are built to be biased, uh, in order to survive. I believe, uh, we, we have to create certain rules in our own universe in order to understand the world. Um, but they, uh, accepting that your bias, your bias does not mean that you can not hear other universes o other perspectives. Um, one thing that I usually received, and, um, when we screen the film, and that is a bias and and bias about ourselves, is, oh, of course you did this film because you are foreign and people talk to you and, and you are, uh, a foreigner, or you are non-threatening. But I will never be able to do that because I'm American. And I, and then they immediately go into the list of who they think they are, or they know the structure, their, their biases of themself, and they would project into others what they believe that the the others are not going to accept from them, from, from them.
Horacio Marquinez: Um, and if you can at least hold, uh, um, hold that, those thoughts for a minute. And number one, show respect, respect to the others for, for the others respect. And, and, and, and I think that one of the things that sparkle this film went throughout the film and, and is kind of innate. That's what kind of part of myself is, is curiosity. I'm curious. And if you demonstrate that you are actually curious, is that, is that your questions are not born by, let me see how I can extract some kind of, uh, some kind of, uh, soundbite that I can use it so people think no, or you can give them the, the respect that you're going to trust. You're going to respect what they say and not manipulate what they say in a way that will, will your will, um, will work for your agenda.
Dr. Robin Stern: That's a beautiful segue to the question I was gonna ask you about the connection between your extraordinary work and gaslighting, because gaslighting is an effort to manipulate someone's reality to align with yours. And the antidote to gaslighting is to strip away all the manipulation and the noise and reclaim your truth. And here you created a movie where you asked for people's truths without your agenda, with kindness and openness and acceptance and curiosity. So I wonder if you saw that connection to, um, like the opposite of gaslighting.
Horacio Marquinez: Well, it was never fully intentional. It, I mean, it was, I, I tried to, I tried this to be as, as natural as possible. And, and, uh, the basics, the basis of my, my, the, the traveling and the is, I, i, we, we were curious and the curiosity and, and then, and not judgmental, not judgment, gave us the room and the space to, to talk to people. Uh, one, I just, I, I, one of my, uh, the, our characters, um, she plays the Grinch in Alabama, in, uh, in the Appalachian Mountains in Alabama. We met her in, um, on the street dressed with a mask, uh, as a grin, uh, Grinch on December 23rd, uh, for Christmas. Um, and, um, she happened to be in, in, um, an ex-convict a drug addict, a a recovering drug addict, um, re regaining the trust of her children. And, um, during Covid, no.
Horacio Marquinez: And they came out with the idea, okay, so like, there, this is like gonna put a mask in, in, in like Santa Claus, uh, top and we're just gonna go out and, and collect literally a dollar or something and entertain kids on the streets, which the streets were empty, literally empty. And she was there every single day and, and having the, the, the time of her life. And, um, she just, I sent her the book, and, and we stay, we stay in touch. Four years later, she's still clean, and she, her, her connection with her daughters are, uh, stronger than ever. And one of the things that she said was that our present has impact her life in, in, in a way that I would've never imagined she impact ours. And I, I, I, it just gave me, uh, um, but this was someone that we met in the streets, and, and she was interesting. She was, she wanted to talk, and we spent, I i I, we spent a few days with her. I, and, um, and we, we just had this, we gave her the space to be whoever she wanted to be with us. And, and I think that that's what we try to do.
Dr. Robin Stern: I think that's beautiful, and you certainly succeeded in just a minute. I'm gonna ask you where people can find you, where people can find your movie. I'm gonna ask you about your book, but Mark, before we do that, I'm wondering if you have some closing thoughts as the person who made all the hotel reservations, who, um, followed them step by step, hour by hour, sometimes across the country, and, uh, as the main producer of this movie.
Dr. Marc Brackett: One thing I wanna say, Robin, is I wanna tie this really closely to the work that you do on gaslighting. Um, and I've been thinking about it as we've been having this conversation that, you know, many of the people who Raio and kil interviewed, you know, come from marginalized backgrounds, meaning they are people who identify as well. They don't, they're, they are, there were undocumented immigrants, um, black moms whose sadly their children were killed by the police, people who were living, um, you know, in rural high poverty America, who, um, you know, have, um, sadly gotten addicted to drugs. Um, and the list goes on. And, you know, when you see what's happening in our culture, um, in many ways these people have been gaslighted, you know, in terms of just giving, you know, for example, uh, even in the film, there's a dynamic between even people of color.
Dr. Marc Brackett: Does racism exist? Does it not exist for people who have been, you know, clear victims of racism their whole lives? It does exist. Whether or not you believe it exists or not, it's their experience for people who are living in high poverty areas of the United States who don't have a lot of opportunity, um, who have, you know, sadly gotten maybe a poor education who, you know, the only thing they had available to them to soothe their trauma was drugs, um, to be called dumb and stupid, right? And then they start believing that, you know, is gaslighting, um, for people to be told, you know, you're overreacting. You know, you're, you know, that's a form of gaslighting to, um, be invalidating people's experiences. So, for example, some people when they were interviewed would say things like, you know, I am, I was born here, but I don't feel like, and I'm American because it's not an equal playing field.
Dr. Marc Brackett: Um, and then for people to say, well, what are you talking about? You have, you know, everyone has the same opportunity. Even people I know very well, you know, um, pushback even on some of the aspects of the film in terms of like, you know, you gotta, if you work hard, you're gonna be successful. Yeah. If you work hard, if you go up with a certain type of family and a certain circumstance, you're gonna, you know, it's, chances are more likely than not, you'll be more successful. But not everybody even knows what that even means. Not everybody has, you know, aunt or an uncle or a teacher that pushes them. And so I think what's interesting about the film is that what's happening is that, um, in certain instances, especially, you know, in the politics space, there's a lot of people pushing narratives. You know, this is the, this is the narrative.
Dr. Marc Brackett: Even in the film, there's one guy who says things like, you know, it's not black lives, you know, all lives matter. How, how could you have a term Black Lives Matter? You know, and this is a, a white privileged person who runs an organ, a company. And so, you know, it's fascinating to me, you know, that that person would go, you know, around saying things like that, um, without having a lot of really deep understanding, you know, of other people's experiences. And so what I feel very proud about, uh, around the film is that the film is asking people to pause, um, to listen, and to just learn a little bit. And I think the only way we can combat some of these challenges, including possibly gaslighting, is by pausing and, and hearing, um, opposing views, you know, and getting a good education.
Dr. Robin Stern: Well, so beautifully said, and thank you for putting a bow on it. I think that that's a, a great way to end, but not before Raio, I ask you where people can buy your book. This book of Racio is still photographs of, uh, people along the way of his trip is just exquisite. Where can people buy that book?
Horacio Marquinez: Uh, you can buy them. And, um, uh, Orio dp d as a director of photography, orio dp.com. What's in, what's important, what's, uh, what happened that we haven't mentioned? Uh, and that the film, it is not only a film, uh, is also a, uh, series. Uh, as we were, um, traveling, I was also creating a, a, a portrait. So there is the, we created an exhibition, a big exhibition of all the foot, all the photography. And, um, it's also worth to mention that we were in the steps of the capital on January 6th.
Dr. Robin Stern: Yes. I'm really glad you brought that up. And, and I think that, uh, the release of this, the release of this podcast will be, uh, around that time as well, just as we're, as the anniversary of January 6th is right behind us, and the inauguration is right in front of us. You're listening to this incredible, uh, story of America Unfiltered. And, um, Racio was there on January 6th, Caril was there and interview people and heard their story and listened fully to what it was like.
Horacio Marquinez: It's important to mention that, um, as part of, as part of, of our traveled, um, of our traveling, we, um, that was right in the middle. And, um, and, um, for me, I knew, I've seen, you know, I, I see the cameras. I know what's, and I know what the media is trying, it was going to capture, and the media was going to try to capture the spectacle, the big crowd, the crowd, the, the anonymous crowd moving us a crowd. For me, being inside, for me, after being, oh, almost seven months on the road, um, was more important to see it from the, uh, from the inside out to see the faces of the people, because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm here with all these people. See the faces. Who are these people who are in this mass, this anonymous crowd? And give some identity, some pers per perspective from personalities. So the, the, um, the exhibition is about who are the people that we, we met in, in the road, who are the people who, that we in, we encounter in, in the steps of the, of, of, of the capital. We know that this, the narrative is changing, but still, uh, the people who were there, or the people who were there, regardless of what we think, uh, what the, the story is about what just happened, but it did happen.
Dr. Robin Stern: Where can people contact you if they want to do an exhibition in their town or in their school, or in their museum or university? And where can they see the film if they'd like to, to see the film or, um, contact you to speak about your film?
Horacio Marquinez: The film is coming out on in February, don't have it released that yet. F on, on, uh, on, um, Amazon Prime. Uh, so it will be easy to find, uh, but right now it is available at all, uh, or all of most, uh, uh, libraries in the United of the United States, um, through Canopy. You just download the, the, the app. K, it is Canopy with a k, K will put it in the, on the, on the on screen canopy. And, uh, you can see our film in many other films for free, uh, or your, with your library card or your, your, uh, college or university card. Uh, so it's very easy. And for, for the book and, um, more information about the film is, um, racio dp.com.
Dr. Robin Stern: Thank you. Well, thank you. It has really been an honor, you know, I love you and it's been an honor to have you on this, on this podcast, and to, um, allow people to hear from you directly about your heart and soul in this movie and your journey with Corll and Mark, always the same to you. And, um, just wonderful that we were able to do this right now in this time. Mark, tell us again, as you sign off, um, how you access the film. How can people watch this film?
Dr. Marc Brackett: Yeah, we're excited, you know, that it's available now for people to watch. Right now it's available on Canopy, which is capital K-A-N-O-P-Y. Uh, it's a app, uh, also a web browser that people can download. If you have a public library card in most cities across the United States, or you are at a college or university and have your id, you can log into Canopy and actually watch the film for free. So, thousands of people have been watching it that way, and, uh, we're excited for people to go on Canopy to watch it. It will be on other streaming services over the next couple of months, but right now, that's where people can watch it.
Dr. Robin Stern: I think it's really exciting, and, and I know that, um, we're going to be offering people some discussion questions so that if they want to show it to a group, a, class a, an organization, that those questions will be available for conversation starters. So how wonderful, congratulations. It really is such an achievement and such a beautiful film.
Dr. Marc Brackett: And Robert, you know, I think that as people are kind of, before they even watched the film, it is a provocative question, the one that Rio really wanted people to answer, which is, you know, what does it mean to be an American? What does it mean to live in America today? And I think that is for people who live here and people who wanna live here. You know, an evergreen question
Horacio Marquinez: I do want, I do wanna close with one, one thought. One idea is the intention of the film is not for everyone or to, to a listener or the person to just, okay, so now jump in a car and just go interview people, interview, uh, strangers. Not everybody has that, that, that capability. But you do have neighbors that you don't even know their names. You don't know who they are just in the supermarket, in the market line. Uh, I do have a friend who actually saw her film, and she was in the, in, in the supermarket line, and she saw a person that was sitting, uh, standing behind her with a t-shirt that was saying something. And in a normal situation, she would never say anything. And then she turned around, asked her about what she meant with the, with the t-shirt, and it started a really interesting conversation, 32nd conversation, but it gave her, uh, a, a very new perspective of the person that was just sitting, standing right behind her. So just, just your neighbor, just the neighbor that you don't know, that you know that it lives there and you never cross one word. You, you can start a conversation with someone and, um, and have an, have an impact and, and, and create new ideas of who, uh, the people are around you.
Dr. Robin Stern: Beautifully said, and a beautiful way to close. Thank you again. Looking forward to next time.
Horacio Marquinez: Thank
Dr. Marc Brackett: You. Thanks, Robin.
Horacio Marquinez: Anytime.
Dr. Robin Stern: Thank you, listeners, um, been a really beautiful and meaningful hour. I encourage you all to watch the movie again and again, and to invite your friends and to buy the book. It's just a beautiful journey for you, for you watching the movie and reading the book and getting to know CIO's work. Thank you, and I'll see you next time. Thanks for joining me for today's episode. I hope you found it helpful and meaningful. If you want to listen to other episodes of the Gaslight Effect podcast, you can find them@robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. And please leave a rating and a review. I also invite you to follow me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter. This podcast is produced by Mel Yellen, Mike Lens, and me. All of my work is supported by Susan Petit Marcus Esteve, and Imaginarium, also by Sally McCarton and Jackie Daniels. I'm so grateful to have many people supporting me and especially grateful for all of you, my listeners.