Podcast Player Episode 058

Dr. Robin Stern: Welcome to The Gaslight Effect podcast. I'm Robin Stern, co-founder and associate director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence, and author of the bestselling book, The Gaslight Effect. I'm an educator and a psychoanalyst, but first and foremost, I'm a wife, a mother, a sister, aunt, and healer. And just like many of you, I was a victim of gaslighting. Please join me for each episode as I interview fascinating guests and explore the concept of gaslighting. You'll learn what it truly means to be gaslighted, how it feels, how to recognize it, and how to understand it, and ultimately, how to get out of it.

Dr. Robin Stern: Before we begin, I want you to know that talking about gaslighting can bring up challenging and painful emotions. Give yourself permission to feel them. Some of you may wanna go more deeply with your emotions. While some of you may hold them more lightly, no matter what you're feeling, know that your emotions are a guide to your inner life. Your emotions are sacred and uniquely you respect and embrace them for they have information to give you. If you want to listen to other episodes of The Gaslight Effect podcast, you can find them at robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for being here with me. So thank you for coming on this podcast, and welcome to The Gaslight Effect podcast. Stephanie, I'm so happy to have you. And I, um, am delighted to know the most healing beautiful Nashville recording artist.

Stephanie Quayle: Oh, well, gosh, I am, uh, that's the kindest thing. I think healing and forgiveness are the goal. Right. And, uh, I'm getting to live that out in real time, which is really something. And so thank you for having me. I'm actually meeting you from Montana right now. That's where I was born and raised. And, uh, so I'm, I'm very blessed to be able to get to come home quite a bit. And, uh, you know, my journey started in, in music, and I just loved storytelling from stage, uh, country music and, uh, the, uh, effects of gaslighting go hand in hand, uh, country songs and the stories and the how it happens.

Dr. Robin Stern: I've been listening to your music for the last few days, and oh my goodness, there is some beautiful lines that we will definitely need to talk about either today or in the future.

Stephanie Quayle: Yes, anytime you want to. I, uh, I've, I, I kind of lived, uh, uh, ahead and behind for many years, if that makes sense. You know, have years, there's seen, seen a Corgi run, you know, know how they're like, they're always like this. Yes. And I think I'm finally getting that self alignment that just takes the time that it takes. And, uh, the music has always been so healing.

Dr. Robin Stern: How did you discover music?

Stephanie Quayle: Well, okay, so high school in Bozeman, Montana, freshman I got, I got bullied pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good and hazed by some senior girls that just had, I was the chosen one. And so it was that moment of choice. How am I gonna, how am I gonna forward? And I ended up doing an exchange program, kid, you not, I'd always been singing in church and at school, but again, never a, like, this will be my career. I think my parents at one time said I wanted to be a singing lawyer, which I find very fascinating. Uh, , like, maybe

Dr. Robin Stern: They wanted you to be a singing lawyer.

Stephanie Quayle: Maybe, maybe I'll be William Shatner esque. Uh, so anyhow, I ended up going to Freeburg Switzerland on a year exchange. That was my running away legally. How do I get out of this, you know, situation, uh, and self preservation. And, uh, so 16 years old, I go to Freeburg, Switzerland. And within the first month of being there, kid you not, there's a little band sitting at the table next to myself and my host brother, and they're talking about finding a new singer for their band. And this is broken French. I mean, I don't speak it fluently yet, and so I'm just, but I'm a professional eavesdropper being a songwriter, so I'm like, I sing hi, you know, and I introduced myself and they say, well, come audition. And I'm 16 years old, I don't know, you know, my head from my elbow. And I, I got the job. And so my afterschool program, my junior year of high school in Freeburg, Switzerland, was in this band being the singer. And on stage, I just, I made sense everywhere else. I felt very awkward and fish out of water, and like that corgi, but on stage, I, I made sense. So then I came home to Montana just on fire for music.

Dr. Robin Stern: I, I wanna stop you for a second, because I love that you said that, that made sense. Can you tell me more about that? Tell our listeners.

Stephanie Quayle: You know, I think for me, there, there have been places that I just feel a hundred percent myself, where there's no try, where there's, there's effort, but effortlessness Effortlessness, yes. On the back of a horse and on stage. And I, I think when there's no try, that's when we're in our best, right? We're in our best skin. It's here I am giving you everything I have. Mm-Hmm. . And there's just something so vulnerable and very strong about that exchange I find on stage, because you're in a room full of strangers, and yet you're connecting in a language that everyone speaks, which is music. Yes. And yeah, I was like, oh, man, I want more of that. I want, I wanna feel more like me, and less like the awkward, like . They can't, for those that can't see me, I'm doing a very awkward dance. Uh, you know, and it's, uh, yeah, it's, so I've, I've been ever since seeking that out. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. So then I come back, I graduate high school. I, uh, work for about six months, pack up my bags. I go to California first because California, the west, I'm from Montana, was very familiar to me. Nashville seemed like as foreign as Switzerland was. Right. And I was like, I'm not ready. I have to be ready to go to Nashville. I want to be prepared.

Dr. Robin Stern: Was that a goal to go to Nashville?

Stephanie Quayle: Yes. Uh, and my love of country music, uh, I knew that's where I would eventually end up. I just had this, like, I have to, I don't know, I have to go to California first, which was just very, call it a 10 year detour, um, . It was so, uh, it, I, it taught me a lot about me, and it taught me a lot about the business I was getting into.

Dr. Robin Stern: What'd you learn about you?

Stephanie Quayle: Oh gosh. That I sometimes wanna see the best in people, and sometimes we just have to see what's in front of us. Yeah. And I have to sometimes learn that the hard way, for sure. Uh, but I love people and I just, I just want everyone to win. So I, you know, I was everyone's champion, although sometimes I didn't know I was, uh, not everyone else's champion , you know, it wasn't always, it didn't always go both ways. And also it just, it, it, I had to keep learning. You know? I think we keep giving, we keep receiving the lesson until we learn it, and I receive the lesson over and over and over again.

Dr. Robin Stern: But I, I think to your point about, um, not always wanting to see what's right in front of you, and being a believer in yes, in heart and soul, um, is one of the reasons that I invited you to be here. Because clearly you've been through a journey of very toxic, um, happenings in your relationship that you weren't even aware of, and completely

Stephanie Quayle: Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Stern: And so I would love to hear, of course, about it. And, and I think that that tendency to see what you wanna see is so strong, because of course, it's there too. Sure. You know? Yeah. So we're paying attention to the part of the picture that really makes sense to us. The part of the picture we're resonating with the part of the picture we've chosen, and we're somehow ignoring signs and signals for, there's a rest of the picture. There's a bigger picture.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. And, and I think to your point too, that that innate intuition that we have, you know, and, and I've really had to hone in on trusting myself and really, you know, block out the noise and does this make sense what this person is saying? Is there anything in my body that's going, uh, something's not right here. Right? Yeah. Or like, you know, an alarm signal going off. You know, I've had all I've had, I mean, I've had like the little, uh, ohs, you know, that turned into like super alarms to Okay, that's just an, uh, oh, and let's just, let's just move through that. We don't have to, we don't have to find out why. Mm-Hmm. , uh, yeah. My stories, you know, it's so interesting. When we were writing the book, I got to collaborate with Dr. Keith Campbell, who's, you know, a researcher in narcissism for such a long time.

Stephanie Quayle: And, you know, it's funny, as we, we have these conversations now, and it's so topical, a lot of these words I'd never even heard about or known about, or really understood the complexity of. And so, as I've, you know, shared my story with him, and as we were writing the book, and then he shares those insights, uh, the whole purpose was if this could be a tool for conversation, if this can be a tool forward, yes. And just give someone those insights that I didn't have at, you know, early twenties, because it not only impacted my personal life, it impacted my business life. Because gaslight and narcissists, they, they don't just stop in our personal relationships or our familial relationships. It's, it's everywhere. You know, I, I hope that people can find a way to just be honest. A lot of people really struggle with it.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yes. So tell us from the beginning about that relationship.

Stephanie Quayle: Sure. So, I, um, I fell in love with a man. I was in my early twenties. He was 17 years older. I'd met him a few years prior. And he had a beautiful little girl. Her name is Eden. She's extraordinary. She's now 28 years old, which is just mind blowing. Uh, people grow up. How does that happen? Uh, I used to especially see it in little kids. And I, I felt, I felt all in, I was, uh, I, I truly believe this was the man that I was gonna spend the rest of my life with. We were building a life together. And, uh, he was a pilot as, as one, he was a hobbyist, a pilot hobbyist. He wasn't doing it for his job, but he loved to fly. And we went flying all the time together. Uh, it was never something I was afraid of, never something I was fearful of.

Stephanie Quayle: And on a Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, uh, I picked up his daughter from school. We called on the way home, like we always do. And that was the long last conversation we had about just a couple hours later, uh, he was flying, he was taking off at Santa Monica Airport, and he crashed on the runway. And, you know, at that moment when we got the call, we didn't, we didn't know that he had died. All we knew that there had been an accident. So as anyone who has any maternal instinct at all, it's get this child to her, to her father as quickly as possible. So we flew down the highway, uh, and got there, but we didn't get there in time. Uh, they, it had been on impact. So there was, there was, there was no way I could have gotten her there sooner. And honestly, that, that moment was how, how, how to, right. I had to call his mom. I had to call, um, his daughter's mother. So there wasn't a lot of time to think about the magnitude of the trauma that had just happened. It needs

Dr. Robin Stern: To get done.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. It's just, you kind of go into mode. Yes. And you, it's, it's what do you have to do to help and protect those around you? That was Wednesday. So five days later, uh, we have a public memorial for him at the Santa Monica Airport. And that day and night is when I discovered I wasn't the only woman. So my grief, I, I barely scratched the surface on grief within those five days.

Dr. Robin Stern: How did that even happen, though? People came up to you?

Stephanie Quayle: So people came up to, uh, well, not just me. Uh, I, I overheard conversations that were just, I, I couldn't put my finger on them. I just thought these women were very callous. And, um, their timing was very poor in saying things like, if he had survived, I, I, I would've, you know, totally had a chance with him. She's not that pretty. Uh, I had a woman throw her wine glass at our, at our, like, family videos and say, this was not his life. Expletive, expletive, expletive. This was not his life. And one of my friends ran after her to try and understand like, what, why, what would compel you to do this at a memorial for a man and her and his family? So then that night, my, uh, closest friend at the time came over to my house and said, you need to move on. And I'm thinking to myself, like, first of all, that's, how does one do that? Uh, I'm still working through dental records in the coron and, and all the things that come with death, which is, unless you've experienced it, it's impossible to describe, uh, the layers of just business,

Dr. Robin Stern: Especially in an accident like that.

Stephanie Quayle: Especially with an accident like that. Exactly. And so when she, you know, shared that his girlfriend had come up to him, to her and her husband at the memorial and said, I was supposed to meet you. I'm Paula's girlfriend. It was just, how does one even begin to unpack that? And so I had, you know, I had to make a choice in that moment. And I, I chose anger . I chose anger. I chose, uh, I'm gonna work through this. I'm not, I'm not gonna do thi I'm, I'm just gonna fight for me and work and not work through what had happened. Just actually go back to work. Yeah. And I went back to work, obviously terribly prematurely, and, uh, within like a week or so. And, uh, and I just, I thought I could avoid it, and I thought I could outrun it. And boy, did it catch up.

Dr. Robin Stern: How did it catch up?

Stephanie Quayle: Well, I didn't do the work like I shared, and I fell into another toxic relationship about nine months later, the line he used with me, I'm gonna show you that you can trust men again.

Dr. Robin Stern: And he was one of those men you could never trust. And

Stephanie Quayle: He was one of those men I could never trust. And so then that played out. In the same time that that was playing out, I got into a very toxic business relationship with another professional gaslighting narcissist, who's still on the run. Uh, so

Dr. Robin Stern: Those people, very compelling, right?

Stephanie Quayle: Yes. And, you know, I hadn't done the work, and this is what I emphasize so much for anyone going through anything, especially losing someone. I, I didn't know how important grief counseling was, because grief is just a different deal. And I, I didn't have the knowledge base. And so my encouragement to anyone listening is that if they are grieving someone, a tragic loss, a a loss that was, that you knew was coming, which I don't, there's not really like a, which one's harder? It's grief is hard, period. And then, you know, the lying and betrayal is a whole other, you know, thing. But to seek out that help, because that was really a major turning point for me in my healing journey. I took the long road to get there.

Dr. Robin Stern: How did you know that you were ready to do the work?

Stephanie Quayle: Well, it, it about took me out. That's how I knew, uh, you know, I got very, uh, I got very, um, on the edge of my own life, and I just didn't wanna hurt anymore. And so my thought was like, well, I'll just take me out and then I'll, I'll finish the equation, then. I, I won't, I won't be able to hurt anyone. No one will be able to hurt me. It wasn't that I wanted to die. It wasn't that I wasn't like, I'm going to take my life today. It was, I can't hurt anymore. This hurt is so compounded again, I hadn't done the work. So all of that hurt and pain from the first relationship that had, you know, that had ended so tragically then this next relationship and a business relationship that had gone

Stephanie Quayle: Just insanely wrong. Uh, it, it just was all, I was the common denominator. And so that, that really, the weight to that, uh, and that's, that's what then got me into, move into these new conversations and do the work. And it was, you know, I think that's the, the greatest lesson I learned is it's unavoidable. We are unavoidable. We can try to avoid ourselves. We can try to avoid, avoid the dark places of our lives, be it from childhood or grownup hood or whatever it is, adulthood, grownup hood. Uh, but it's really the only way is through it.

Dr. Robin Stern: Sure. Because otherwise it takes you over.

Stephanie Quayle: It takes you over, and it, and it, it destroys you inside out, you know? And I, this is how I always am. The, you know, I love people. I love bringing people up, lifting people up. So all the meanwhile, I was presenting this, and inside I was crumbling. And then I find the love of my life, you know? And so I'm like, oh, well, now I'm good. I really don't have to deal with it now. I, I found this great man, you know, we get married, and so I'm good. And then it's like knocking on my door every day. No lady , I'm still here. I'm just waiting. And I'm gonna keep tearing at you until you deal with it. So it's been a, i I, I don't want anyone to take the long road like I did, but boy did I take the longest road to forgiveness and healing. And, and really, when I say forgiveness, it's forgiveness of self, because I think we are so much, I, I think I find that I had an easier time forgiving others than I did forgiving myself.

Dr. Robin Stern: We have to start including ourselves and the people we give compassion to and concern to caring. Yes.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah.

Dr. Robin Stern: I'm really, um, deeply curious about and interested in, in hearing what the unpacking was like for you. Mm-Hmm. What did you discover you was drawing you to these people who, um, weren't who they were, who they see. Right. And there you are with your openness and Yeah. Wanting to connect and, and you're an intimacy builder. I can feel it. And, and you like that, and it's a beautiful thing. Right. And here are these people who were manipulating you and abusing you. And so, and the unpacking share with us. What, what did you learn?

Stephanie Quayle: Well, I think in that first relationship the first year was like, what you dream about, right? Uh, it, it was, it was larger than life, which should have been a flag. But I, I just was a, you know, young girl in love. And that first year it was really healthy-ish. Right? Uh,

Dr. Robin Stern: Ish. What's the ish,

Stephanie Quayle: Ish, ish? What was the ish? The ish, because I, you know, I was just in a love bubble

Dr. Robin Stern: Uhhuh.

Stephanie Quayle: And, uh, and he, he did, you know, really lean into this idea of us and this familial, you know, uh, he was the ultimate, I say this in quotation marks ultimate bachelor, according to his friend group, so that I had, like, you know, that I was the one that had changed him. You know, they were baffled and that for that initial year. Yeah. And then, you know, what do they say? Old dogs don't lose, learn new tricks. What's the old, whatever the, whatever that saying is,

Dr. Robin Stern: I, I can't think of it. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: You can't teach an old dog tricks. Old

Dr. Robin Stern: Dog tricks, right? Yeah. Something

Stephanie Quayle: Like that. Uh, and, and then it was those little things, it was never big. It was like little picking me apart slowly. So if it would be a comment about my looks, my weight, my age, uh, you know, it was, I, I'll nev it was so wild. I couldn't tell you what happened yesterday, but I can tell you the way I felt the moment, and this is over 15 plus years ago, when he said my face was finally cracking. I can remember the feeling and what I was wearing when he said, oh, you're bulking up. When I started working out.

Dr. Robin Stern: Wow.

Stephanie Quayle: Now who, now what woman loves being told they're bulking up when you're like, trying to get lean and strong, you know,

Dr. Robin Stern: What, what about that moment was so deeply painful that you remember it all these years later? I mean, it's not a nice thing to say, but what about it? Was it that you were open to him, that you were in love with him? That

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah, I think I looked at it like, I'm still not good enough.

Dr. Robin Stern: Mm-Hmm.

Stephanie Quayle: , I'm still not enough, so I have to work on me more. Yeah. And that's what I did. I'm like, okay, I'm getting bulky. I gotta not get bulky. Um, I'm, I, I mean, I didn't even, you know, know about Botox, so I didn't even consider that. I'm like, man, I gotta get these little frownies. I'll wear my little stickers on my forehead, you know, and, and try not to show emotion. , move my vase and, uh, oh man. You know, all the things that I, I just went to, I must, I must get better.

Dr. Robin Stern: You, right? Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. Versus like, Hey, guy, knock it off.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yeah. Like, I don't like it when somebody talks to me like that.

Stephanie Quayle: Correct. And, and I, and it wasn't, it wasn't all at once. Like, it would be picking me apart in these little moments. And then whenever I would question him, when he'd be flirtatious with a server at a restaurant, or I'd see him make eyes with someone, a woman across the room, and I'd feel it. Yeah. And I'd sense it, but that was met with your crazy and insecure,

Dr. Robin Stern: Easier to gaslight you than, uh, to be fearful that you're gonna honor your own feelings and say, what the hell are you doing?

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. Yeah. And eventually I just got smaller and smaller in my voice, in my light, and got dimmer and dimmer to where my friends, I, I'll never forget, my friend referred to me as a Stepford wife, because I just showed, I just was blank. I just was fine.

Dr. Robin Stern: Mm-Hmm. .

Stephanie Quayle: I was so unfi

Dr. Robin Stern: You were fine because you had to be fine in order to stay and stay connected. And did you ever think about leaving in those period of time? Yes,

Stephanie Quayle: I did. And, you know, having his daughter a part of our life, I mean, I, I took that responsibility on as a a mother figure. She's an amazing mom. So just for clarity's sake, you know, they had shared, uh, custody, but I loved her. And I was raising her with him. And when I pulled away, and when I said that, you, you, you, I don't know if I ever threatened to leave, but I, you know, when I would pull away, he would draw me right back in. And that's when it would be what they, you know, they, they call love bombing. Right. They, that term, again, I had no idea, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna go on a lavish vacation and I'm gonna give you everything that you want, and I wanna build a life with you and a family with you. And, and, and so that's when, and I would get pulled right back in, pulled right back in.

Dr. Robin Stern: Were there other instances of gaslighting that looking back, you remember?

Stephanie Quayle: Yes. Uh, so, you know, and, and now I know more of these things, right? I just didn't know, uh, from, um, we were on a vacation, uh, with some of our friends. And the, the most consistent two words he used were the crazy and insecure.

Dr. Robin Stern: Mm-Hmm. .

Stephanie Quayle: But I felt it and saw it. Mm-Hmm. . And I, I referenced it in my book, this gorgeous woman. I mean, she was stunning. So I, I mean, I can't, that there was that in this yellow bikini on our trip. And there he is in the pool with her. And, uh, and I, you know, I'm in my little wetsuit, like slouching up the the sand, just, you know, with my goggles attached to my thi I just look horrendous, you know? And this is beautiful supermodel. And, um, he didn't introduce me as his person. Here I am raising his, his kid, you know, with him. And we're building this life together, supposedly. And there were just moments like that, that I had, I known what I know now, would never have stood for, would never have allowed, but, you know, nothing, uh, uh, about, you know, his, his business life, his family life. I didn't have a real secure understanding of anything. You know, I think about that a lot now. I didn't really know his family, and I wonder if that is not part of, you know, it's part of isolation for sure. But also, you know, if you have people that know you from birth, they can say certain things and tell you certain things. And so I was definitely kept from, uh, a lot of his family.

Dr. Robin Stern: What did you make of it at the time? So I'm sure you said, I'd love to meet X, Y, Z. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. And, and I'd met some of them. There just wasn't, there was, there was a guard, there was a, there was a, there was definitely a wall up. And I, I just figured, you know, well, they're not close, you know, I did, uh, I mentioned it in the book, um, Eden's mom, after, after he died, the, the, the first, uh, first relationship that we're referencing, uh, she reached out to me the Monday following. So this is the day after the public memorial. Before the private funeral, which is the following day. And, uh, so this is that Monday. And she'd reached out to get his computer to get some photographs for Eden. And I just said to her, you can have whatever you want.

Stephanie Quayle: And she said to me, oh, you found out? And I said, oh, you knew. And she goes, I wanted to tell you, but I knew he would, I shouldn't use the word gaslight, but we're using that term. Uh, I knew, I know, I knew he would convince you that, uh, otherwise, and just say, I was just his crazy ex. So we've never had that, like, you know, deep sit down, like, roll up our sleeves. She's, she's so past it. And, you know, uh, and she asked me, you know, like, why, why would you write this album? Which was the catalyst for the book, know that, that followed it? And I go, man, I just, I have, I have to fully get through it. And this is how I expressed myself. And to not put it in my music was really, I knew I couldn't do it halfway. I couldn't scratch the surface. So I had to go full jugular, uh, on my music experience. And then with the book, you know, there's no interpretation. It's black and white on the page. And I had to check myself during that writing process to make sure I wasn't exaggerating. Because as I was writing it, it was, I'm like, this was really bad . You know, I laugh about it now, but while I was writing it, I had to take a lot of deep breaths and step away.

Dr. Robin Stern: Sure. And it's, when it's gaslighting and it's that kind of covert manipulation Yes. And ongoing over time, it's very easy to just point the finger at yourself and say, what am I doing? Like, what am I, like, I'm not good if I were,

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of shame and guilt that comes with it too, because it goes back to the title of the book. Well, why did you stay? Right? And so, you know, I left that relationship only through his tragic passing. And then in the second one, you know, he was masterful as well. And there was, there was a time when he lied in front of me, and I had seen what had really happened firsthand. And yet he was so good at lying and gaslighting that I, I'm like, am I losing my mind? Am I, like, did what he said happen, really happen? And was I just, you know, when you

Dr. Robin Stern: Say he was good at gaslighting, I think this is really important for our listeners to hear. Yeah. What, what did he do that you are saying now? He was good at it.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. I, I think the word is convincing. You know, he was so well spoken and he had a very overriding personality. Yeah. He, I refer to him in the book as the Prince, and that's a, that's a whole other can of worms. But, you know, I, I, I wanna honor his privacy. He is, uh, you know, he has moved on with his life, and he is a, he's finding his way, and I've truly forgiven him, which is life giving. Uh, forgiveness is so much for us. It's not for the person that we're holding, uh, whatever toward. But yeah, he was masterful, masterful and charismatic, and also had that larger than life personality. But I found myself making a lot of excuses for his bad behavior towards others, but not, you know, I'd be like, oh, you know, he doesn't really mean that. Or, you know, I would be very protective of his nonsense until I, you know, finally was able to leave, which took me confronting a girl that he had cheated on me with.

Stephanie Quayle: And that was a wild conversation. And I don't know that I would, you know, say, go do that. But it was what I needed to leave and to have that firsthand conversation with her. And I prefaced that. I said, I'm, I'm not mad at you. You had no, you had no previous knowing of what you were walking into. But if you can share with me what he said to you, because he had such a, a, a, a particular way of speaking, very identifiable. I knew that she couldn't put one over on me. Mm-Hmm. . Right. I knew that if she was really in this situation with him, that, um, I would be able to identify it by the way she spoke of him.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yes.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. It was wild.

Dr. Robin Stern: And I, I think it's so important that you're, you're putting your finger on, um, something that happens a lot, which is that we explain away. We're trying to make sense out of that bad behavior. So we're, we're analyzing that person. Why would he do that? And then you find this explanation, and, and in that explanation, it can be comforting. But at the same time, what about you? On the other hand, so, so you're comforted by the explanation, but wait a minute, what about your insight that you knew what was going on, and now all of a sudden, all you're doing is comforting yourself, in the moment? 'cause he, he is explaining away

Stephanie Quayle: Completely. It is. I, I find myself every day having this conversation with myself of, we are we, you and me, me and me are going to work on getting stronger, paying such closer attention to what people say and don't say, and really get into that trust of, of self. Because my intuition knew, my gut knew my body felt it, I would go, Hmm. You know, if it goes, Hmm. Is it, I don't even, I don't even spend any time investigating. I used to be like an investigator, you know, I would go through, I would, I have to like, be a sleuth no sleuthing.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yes, of

Stephanie Quayle: Course. You got no time to waste. You know, it's like, if it feels wrong, that's good enough for me.

Dr. Robin Stern: Right. You don't have to know all the details. If you don't like it, you just need to get away.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. It's, it's very freeing to get time back. And I don't hold space for that in, in the wonder and the curiosity and the why. You know, I just, I have firewalled that part of my brain now because I don't wanna lose more time. I don't wanna lose more time. And I lost a lot of years. And, uh, and that, that in one part breaks my heart. And also, I'm so grateful for conversations like this because maybe someone who's hearing this is spending too much time thinking about things they can't control. And it might give them that, like, I'm gonna go firewall that for myself too.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yes. It's healing for you and for them. And I, I just have this burning question now, listening to the way you're answering questions, which is, yeah. So, um, poetic and beautiful. How do you decide what you're going to write about in, in your music? Because Oh, yeah. It's just wonderful and healing.

Stephanie Quayle: I, uh, well, I'm constantly writing. Someone will say something, or a little idea will come to me, and I, it, it depends, like sometimes it's a lyric or sometimes it's a melody, or sometimes it's both. Like, the other day I was getting ready to go perform at a songwriter festival here in Montana. And I was driving down the road, this little two lane road, and the river is right there beside me. And this just idea came into my mind so immediately, which is, you know, not the best way to do it. But I have a little voice memo on my phone and I just pull it out and I just let it, you know, let it happen. And then it's cultivating and crafting the song. Right. And, and I, you know, I tend to be a, a, an editor, a lot of my own music, because you know what makes sense to me, I wanna make sure makes sense to the listener. And that's what I love about country. It feels very simplified for sure in, in its storytelling. But with country, it's also very purposefully simplified. So it has that, that feeling of understanding

Dr. Robin Stern: Definitely felt like I was sitting on a porch with you and you were just sleeping. Wow. Yeah. It was really

Stephanie Quayle: Fun. That's cool. That's what a, that's, that's the very kind of you to say.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yeah. It's really true.

Stephanie Quayle: Song writing is, is Woo Man. Lemme tell you something. Music has been such a continuous gift, you know, even after all these years of making my little songs and, uh, just, it's, it's such a gift music. So now as I think of where I'm headed musically, you know, where I want to write into people's lives, these little soundtracks, you know, what do I have to say? Yeah. And I'm excited to still have something to say.

Dr. Robin Stern: What do you think you want to do next? I mean, when you say you, you're excited about where you're headed, tell us.

Stephanie Quayle: Well, I think what was really interesting about the On the Edge album was I think we all feel like islands in this world. We think that there's no way that this happened to somebody else. And what I quickly discovered after I shared that album, which was, I, I, you know, I own my own record label, so I could have pulled it before putting, like, I, I had that option and I was thinking about it because once it was out there, there's no retracting it. And once the story's out there, and, you know, that was something that was a conversation I had with Eden. You know, I wanted to make sure comfortable and, uh, with the music and, and because again, it's, it's her dad. And I wanted to be very, um, you know, at the end of the day, no matter what he did or didn't do with me, that's still her father.

Stephanie Quayle: And I very much respect that. And, uh, and so she was just awesome about it. So as this album's coming out, you know, I'm like, well, who's gonna relate to this insane stranger than fiction story? A lot of people came outta the woodwork that had had similar experiences and sharing, you know, that they lost someone, and then they learned of all these lives and lies. And it was, it was, we are a strange club. I have a song called Strange Club. And I'm like, yeah, we are a strange club, not one we choose to be in. And so I think that that music also is very jolting for a lot of people from the standpoint of it, it doesn't, uh, for this is what I learned from my listeners is that's, it's heavy. It's not light. And my album before it was very loving and light.

Stephanie Quayle: So it was like my, my current life came out in early 22, and then I brought out on the Edge, which is like my prequel to my current. And so now I'm just excited to be, you know, aligned with myself and be able to talk about deep things in a way that I don't have to touch that conversation in the same way again. Right. Uh, and it's my personality and, and the lightheartedness and the hopefulness that I do have, I'm excited to marry all of this into these songs so that it can have that depth. And it also can have maybe some dog dish to where you just wanna put on a good song and sing and dance around and not have, you know, the intensity that comes with thought provoking conversation through some

Dr. Robin Stern: Really getting into those feelings. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. So I'm, I'm just excited for where it's headed. And, uh, I got, I got a lot of songs to write before this next record comes out, so I got a lot of work ahead of me. But it's exciting work

Dr. Robin Stern: That is so wonderful to hear. And, and I hope everyone listening is like, can't wait. I'll expect that they can't wait for your, for your next album. Yeah. So what do you think, um, are the most important lessons you've learned in your journey?

Stephanie Quayle: I was worthy the day I was born.

Dr. Robin Stern: Mm. Beautiful.

Stephanie Quayle: Valued enough.

Dr. Robin Stern: Mm-Hmm. ,

Stephanie Quayle: You know, when we're kids, we just have this sweet curiosity, tenacity for life, and we're just all in. And then we get around people, right. And we start shifting to fit in or shifting to not get, you know, hazed into , uh, bullied in high school or whatever that may be. And I think that one of the greatest lessons is just that self-worth.

Dr. Robin Stern: And this is such an important thing for you to put out there, especially in music. Yes. Or with music, because we're living in a world right now where people, uh, it's really hard to feel like you have self-worth when you go online and you see everyone is so perfect and

Stephanie Quayle: So filtered.

Dr. Robin Stern: Yes. And so what a, what a wonderful time to remind us that we had value and worth.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. And, and, you know, and with that message, you know, when I, when I get any time with young people, high school and college students, 'cause that was, you know, that's, those years are so precious and, uh, you know, young people are inundated with things that we never had to deal with. That's right. You know, I can't imagine what it would've felt like to have to live this out on social media. Can't fathom it. Yeah. Um, would've been a lot harder. Yes. And so, one of the things I share with young people is like, the lessons I've learned is you are your greatest investment. So, you know, like, I always try to look, look at it from like time management, right? So if I spend an hour doing something that's for the outside, am I doing an equal hour for something that's on the inside?

Dr. Robin Stern: Yeah. So what do you do for something on the inside?

Stephanie Quayle: Hmm. Well, I'm a, I'm a strong woman of faith, so I'm deep in prayer and deep in gratitude. And I've been prone to anxiety attacks and panic attacks. And one of the ways that I've been able to navigate that for myself is I get granular. I get, I start with my toes, . I work my way up, and it's takes a long time. And I work my way up to like the ends of my hair in gratitude. Love it. And, and it's, it, it, it, it shifts your, your your mindset. And I've done a lot of, you know, I do seminars and I read tons of books on how to be better and not bitter. Right. And I think it's, it's, it's a constant choice we have to make every single day to make every day just, I, I, and also, I say this, I've lost a lot of years, so I'm not gonna miss a millisecond. If there's a millisecond, one little more moment that I can squeeze out of a day, I, I do it. And I didn't do that before because I was so unhappy with my present that I focus so far forward on the future, that that's how I missed a lot of these signs. So I would be like, well, one day he's gonna be great, so our future is gonna be so great. It's worth being in the muck of the present.

Dr. Robin Stern: What a great thing for you. What a gift to give to our listeners that if you can't live in your present and you're only living in your future, then you need to worry about where your present actually is

Stephanie Quayle: A thousand percent. And to be, you know, we to have this saying in Nashville, be where your feet are.

Dr. Robin Stern: Mm-Hmm.

Stephanie Quayle: , you know, I know after we get off this call, we have busy days and we're doing all our things, but right now, we are here in this conversation. We are

Dr. Robin Stern: Here,

Stephanie Quayle: We where our feet are. And it's such a great simple, you know, let's take all the complexities away. Let's just go down to like, what would you say to a five-year-old?

Dr. Robin Stern: Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: I think I, I think I talk to myself like that , you know, like, I really simplify it and keep it easy. You

Dr. Robin Stern: Wear, your feet are,

Stephanie Quayle: There's so much coming at us all the time. And, you know, really, uh, another lesson is just I knew, I knew,

Dr. Robin Stern: We always know.

Stephanie Quayle: We always know. And so I was, you know, I'm really grateful that, you know, as my birthday comes up next week, that I've learned, that I've learned, and that I know this now, so that I can give myself back the opportunity to walk away and let people leave. And not, I, I don't, there's no more force, there's no more chase. You know? And that, I think that just comes with doing a lot of work and a lot of healing and a lot of, you know, uh, pointing the finger at myself and going, okay, I can't change what's happened. I can only be where my feet are. And how do I, how am I gonna be better? Like, how am I gonna be better than my yesterday self? You know, how am I gonna give more, not less necessarily, like do more as an action. Like, you know, just be like, I wanna be more present. I want to, I want people to get more out of anything that I'm touching doing. So it's so they get that fulfillment because it's, it's just so precious and it's finite. We just don't know. We don't know what could happen so well,

Dr. Robin Stern: Or Absolutely. I mean, I'm experiencing your life force as so beautiful and so positive and what a gift to everyone. And, and I, I, um, in listening, I was listening to, um, I can't think of, I don't remember the name of the song, but it was about moving forward, um, yeah. And, uh, what's the name of that song?

Stephanie Quayle: Wh which do you, was it off this recent album? The On the Edge?

Dr. Robin Stern: It was Light My Way.

Stephanie Quayle: Oh yeah. Made the Bridges that I burned Light My Way. Woo.

Stephanie Quayle: That this is, I'm so glad you picked up on this song because this was a really interesting experience. So I wish I would've written this song. 'cause this is one of the greatest songs I've ever been a part of. Uh, when I heard Light My Way, I struggled with the Line. Now this is the line I struggled with. May the Bridges that I burn Light My Way because I'm such a, let's all be good, everyone be happy. Let's not do anything that could hurt anybody. And that song happened before On the Edge and before I wrote the book.

Dr. Robin Stern: Wow.

Stephanie Quayle: And I'll tell you what, there's something so powerful in cutting ties, cutting bait, and burning the bridges that no longer are, are, it has to be a win-win. It has to be good, good. It has to be, am I pulling you up or am I pulling you down? And if, if there's pulling down, they gotta go. And when that finally, that shift happened, one of my favorite songs to sing, because it's so, it's bold,

Dr. Robin Stern: It's bold, and it was so nourishing in, in, so it was so nourishing and so absolutely hopeful.

Stephanie Quayle: Yeah. I don't know where I'm going. All I know, uh, I don't know where I'm going now. All I know is what I'm leaving behind. Woo. I mean, just Oh, gets you. And, uh, may the bridges that I burned be the lessons that I learn.

Dr. Robin Stern: And so, I mean, so it, it gives you the light you need to move forward. It was so beautiful. I, so thank you for spending this time with me.

Stephanie Quayle: Gosh, thank you for, thank you for taking it. And I hope that, uh, you know, time is such a gift in how we spend it and share it, you know, we don't get it back. So thank you for taking the time, making the time to share this conversation. Hopefully the listeners, uh, have takeaways that they take with them. And that's the good stuff.

Dr. Robin Stern: That's the good stuff. Did you find it difficult after he was gone to, to deal with the toxic toxicity? Did you find it difficult because he was no longer here?

Stephanie Quayle: Absolutely. I mean, there was no opportunity to confront him. There was no, you know, I mean, I, of course, I, I, I screamed out, you know, in those days, following months following like, how could, how could you do this to me? Of course. But not having that, uh, that face-to-face, actually, that's one of the songs. It's hard to play, uh, just because it's, it is so poignant to your question, you know, uh, you know, if you, it's, it's, it's called Last Breath, and it's on the album on the Edge, and it asks that question, if you knew this was your last breath, would you, would you have apologized?

Dr. Robin Stern: Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: Would you just, or would you have continued the lie? Kept up the lie? And so it is a really, um, it's a really different experience than it is with the, you know, the, the second toxic relationship that I mentioned the book, the Prince, because I saw him afterward, right. I, I saw him after I wrote the album. I saw him after I wrote the book, and I, I have been face to face with him with that fullness of forgiveness. And I think there's this beautiful place, and this, I think is when you know, you've really, like done your, like, really forgiven someone is, when you don't feel anything, when it doesn't move you up or down, you, your heart rate doesn't move. You're, you're, you're just kinda like, it just is. Yeah. And I think that's part, you know, acceptance more than indifference, if that makes sense. It just, it just is. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Stern: So where can people find you? Tell us where they can find your book, your album, your podcast. Where can people be with you in that way?

Stephanie Quayle: So, Stephanie quail.com is for all my tour dates. Uh, you know, I'm on tour all over the place, so that's the best place to find where I'm playing or speaking or, uh, you know, visiting universities or high schools and such. And, uh, then of course, social media is a great place to connect. Uh, I check all my messages myself, so if you have a message, it will be me that reads it. So y'all be kind . And, uh, my music is anywhere you listen to music and, and the book is available, uh, anywhere you buy your books, um, online, of course, you know, if you wanna go write, review or never mad about that. And, uh, just appreciate it. And there's also the audible, which I, I have to say I've not listened to yet. It is my voice and, uh, Dr. Keith Campbell's voices. So it's our, you know, it's in our natural habitat. Uh, we didn't, I was like, I can't have an actor. Uh, I gotta have my, you know, my tone and my experience. So, uh, that is available as well. And it's a quick, it packs a punch. It's a little book, but hopefully it will be one that, uh, others can carry around and whenever they need to, like, go to the glossary and go, okay, wait, what was that again? Uh, it's a,

Dr. Robin Stern: Well, thank you Stephanie so much. Um, you've been incredibly generous and open and, um, I just love spending time with you. So thank you for this gift.

Stephanie Quayle: Thank you so much. And I can't wait to get some time with you next time you're in Nashville.

Dr. Robin Stern: Well, I'll look forward to it, and to everyone listening, what a gift Stephanie has been for us. And, uh, please check her out on social media by her book, her album, and be nourished as I have been by her presence and her music. Thank you. Thanks for joining me for today's episode. I hope you found it helpful and meaningful. If you want to listen to other episodes of The Gaslight Effect podcast, you can find them at robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. And please leave a rating and a review. I also invite you to follow me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter. This podcast is produced by Mel Yellen, Mike Lens, and me. All of my work is supported by Suzen Pettit Marcus Estevez and Omaginarium, also by Sally McCarton and Jackie Daniels. I'm so grateful to have many people supporting me and especially grateful for all of you, my listeners.