Dr. Robin Stern: Welcome to The Gaslight Effect Podcast. I'm Robin Stern, co-founder and associate director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence, and author of the bestselling book, The Gaslight Effect. I'm an educator and a psychoanalyst, but first and foremost, I'm a wife, a mother, a sister, aunt, and healer. And just like many of you, I was a victim of gaslighting. Please join me for each episode as I interview fascinating guests and explore the concept of gaslighting. You'll learn what it truly means to be gaslighted, how it feels, how to recognize it, and how to understand it, and ultimately, how to get out of it.
Dr. Robin Stern: Before we begin, I want you to know that talking about gaslighting can bring up challenging and painful emotions. Give yourself permission to feel them. Some of you may wanna go more deeply with your emotions. While some of you may hold them more lightly, no matter what you're feeling, know that your emotions are a guide to your inner life. Your emotions are sacred and uniquely you respect and embrace them for they have information to give you. If you want to listen to other episodes of the Gaslight Effect Podcast, you can find them at robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for being here with me. So welcome everyone to this episode of the Gaslight Effect podcast, and I am really excited to have Phil from Owl and Key with me. So Phil Franks, will you please tell the world who you are,
Phil Franks: Robin? Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Um, it's always wonderful to be in your presence and to share space with you. Um, I'm very grateful to be here, so thank you for hosting me. Um, who am I? Uh, kind of a loaded question, but I'll give my best shot. Um, so I am in my, my shortest version. I'm a, a husband, a father, uh, an entrepreneur. Uh, I'm an inner and outer world explorer, an author, um, and someone that really enjoys holding space for others to, to find themselves by going inward. Um, that's the abridged version. The, the longer version is that, um, grew up in the Midwest, uh, traveled around a lot when I was younger. Uh, we followed my father's job around. He was in aviation. Uh, so we had a very trans transient lifestyle early on. Um, and settled here in the Midwest, um, and families here.
Phil Franks: Um, I played sports growing up, which is a big part of my journey and figuring out kind of who I was in, in that space. But at the same time, I was also this creator. I was also always a creator. Um, and that has then fueled me to do this idea of like, team and people with this idea of creation and design, uh, and to many versions of self, as you know. Uh, but in the newest season, uh, my wife and I are co-founders of Alan Key, a lifestyle and transformation company. Um, and we were So
Dr. Robin Stern: Tell us more about that. I, yeah, totally
Phil Franks: Great. So thank you for that, Robin. Um, so our work, so really, um, the journey came with a little bit of a backstory about our work. The journey came at a really seminal point in our lives. Um, we had been in a version of self for a while. I was a partner at a pretty large size agency here in the Midwest Digital Agency. My wife was also an employee here. She left to go on sabbatical to figure out her herself as she hit the point that many of us hit, where we have that, that feeling. It's a feeling that we have. Um, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't feel like me, or the question of it feels like there's more to life. Um, that question comes up a lot, I'm sure, with those who you get to spend time with as well. Um, I hit my own reckoning, which I've shared with you, um, where in the onset of our, our first son, uh, we had a big question and I had a big question I had to go in to answer.
Phil Franks: And that answer was, what do you want? What do you want? And this version, and this, this version and season of your life. And the answer was, I wanted to be a present father. I wanted to be a present father, and I wanted to begin to build a life around the feelings and the values that I was creating in that moment, in that onset of energy that was coming our way as a new life was about to join us. Um, and that was hard. I mean, that, that chasm across of that feeling and that that awareness, whether it's intentional or it's, it's brought upon you, um, to make a change and take awareness to reality. Take what you know about yourself and these feelings that you have that, that you know are true in some degree, and actually put that into practice in your real life.
Phil Franks: And a lot of the times that's unraveling from things that you've built unconsciously. And for us, after going through that journey now nearly a decade in of shedding that skin, rebuilding our life from ground zero. And as I've shared with you, uh, on the same day my son was born was the day we left our careers and we had a new life in our home. We were first time parents, we were also first time entrepreneurs and founders. And Alan Key, um, and this work that we've been doing at Alan Key was really packaging up this lived life experience mixed with modalities and training and things that we've acquired over the years. And putting that out in front of people in a very practical way to answer that question, how do I take this awareness? How do I become aware, take this awareness, and then make that actually happen in my real life?
Phil Franks: Awareness to integration, awareness to integration and learning about yourself. And we wrote a book and that journey called Strategic Planning for Life. And that's the flagship framework that we use as a product, uh, for our corporations, our individuals and couples and partners that go through our work. And this work allows people to go in to then come out, go inward, to then come out. And it's a very practical guide, not a how to, it's not a how to, we're not telling you how to do anything. It's a space holder for people to actually take the time, the space, and the, the much needed pause to reflect and go inward, cultivate that data, put your hands in the soil of you, turn it over, and then grow from there. And that's work that, as I mentioned to you before, I have, uh, a very big passion for, and it is the heart fuel, um, that keeps us, uh, wanting to deliver and hold space for others on this journey, too.
Dr. Robin Stern: That's a great place for me to then ask, um, what are you doing here on this podcast? What made you say yes to talking about Gaslight effect?
Phil Franks: Um, so I mean, to be very vulnerable, it is the connection that I feel with you. It's, uh, there's a lot of shared space that we have. Um, it's a lot of kindred energy. Um, and that's something that I'm following a lot more in my life. Before that, I never really followed in the past. I lived so much of my mind. I lived only of the mind, much less the feeling and trusting of those, that feeling that I have, my intuition, my instinct, that knowing, um, and and spent sharing space with you and spending time with you over the last few weeks, um, I've just felt called to, to be more in spa in that space with you. Um, to go a little bit deeper on the gaslighting, I mean, I think your work, um, really does something very similar to ours that it ma it like makes you reflect, um, on your experiences.
Phil Franks: And I know that I shared this with you on our show, uh, which you graciously joined our audience with and for, um, was that it made me reflect on how I'm not only doing that as a gas slider, um, for situations in my life. Maybe not more so much now in my today's state, but how that has been, uh, apparent in my life in parenthood early on since of parenthood. Uh, which is a big, a big nugget for me, uh, that I hang onto dearly. And then also with my wife and my partner. Uh, 'cause we have a very interwoven relationship personally, professionally, parenting, et cetera. Um, how some of those triggers that we have in our relationship have caused me to be the gaslight in those scenarios. So, um, those areas and spending time with you and being able to reflect as I love to do and as we profess others could also do as a modality, is just reflect on yourself. Uh, your work allows me to do that and allows many others to do that. I
Dr. Robin Stern: Appreciate, um, your kind words. And also, I'm glad that you're here because I, I too have felt the kindred spirit energy. Um, and I, I'd love for you to share with people how you recognize that you were a gaslight. 'cause people often ask me, well, are gaslight bad people? Are they, are people born gaslight? And of course, I have to say, people are not born gaslight. And and people don't get up in the morning and think, gee, I think I'll gaslight someone today. So people do it out of a need in the moment that they may not recognize and out of. Um, and that not recognizing what's going on in the moment perhaps leads you to, uh, act in a way that if you were to go inward before you came outward, then you would make a different choice, perhaps. So, um, please tell us a little bit about your experience as a gas lighter. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin Stern: Can you give us an example?
Phil Franks: Yes, totally. So for me, uh, what I've realized is that some of my, my big loops, uh, tend to come closer to the nucleus. So nucleus being things that are more, uh, ever present or have been bigger impact in my life. So, uh, my relationship with my wife, which is now, uh, decades long, uh, my relationship with my family, which is multiple, multiple decades long, uh, places in which I resided and grew up, those kinds of things, like they all solicit versions of you that, um, maybe you are no longer that person, but they, but they elicit that version of yourself, even if you've gone past that self. And so, I, I consider it a lot like gravity, like the energy of gravity where it kind of like pulls you back into like what you were in that space. And so a concrete example would be, um, for me, one of my, my traits in my home growing up was this idea of being the harmonizer.
Phil Franks: So I was a harmonizer in a lot of ways with the, the energy that that, uh, persisted in my family mm-hmm.
Phil Franks: Your emotions are your personal data. The, the things that you feel and everything that's happening is good. It's all things that you can look at and go into. And it's not, it's not going to always feel good, obviously, but the crests and the trough of life allow you to go in and, and go in on yourself. And so for me, I found myself being a harmonizer later into life, uh, holding onto things that maybe weren't settling with me in my, in my vision for how things could be in our relationship, like how we might do something as a family, or how we might do something in our relationship just as husband and wife. Um, and so, like, I would tend to harmonize things. And so when I did that, I would compartmentalize the energy of what I was feeling. So I would hold onto the thing that was, that was what I knew that I wanted to express, but not express that to avoid disharmony mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin Stern: I really appreciate you talking about the physiological, um, changes that, that you go through. Um, just to clarify, before you find yourself gaslighting mm-hmm. Is that right
Phil Franks: Now? Yes. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin Stern:
Phil Franks: Totally. Yeah. I can share the emotions much more than I used to, uh, because of that feeling of safety. I know that you know this, and I was never unsafe as a child, obviously, like physically, but there were certainly some kind of like emotional ups and downs that made it hard to kind of hang onto yourself. I would always retreat to my room if I needed space to kind of have sanctuary and things like that. So now, now that I have that awareness, I can choose differently. I can say, no, I am, I can say yes. I, I'm here, I'm here in this moment. I know that I'm here with my wife. I know that we have these shared intentions. I'm going to express these things of love, of empathy, of trust, so that I'm not going to honor that old programming. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna honor that big loop and say like, no, this is just who I am. You are a harmonizer. You compartmentalize. You don't express your feelings. Um, deep down in my soul, I don't believe those stories that we tell of ourselves are true. I think those are versions of ourselves. Uh, and, and most cases, they're not the versions of theirselves that we want to be. We call them not self and self and those kinds of things. Um, I practice every day in my home and our work.
Dr. Robin Stern: So for our listening audience who wants to know, well, come on. You know, Phil, are you talking about when you have a fight with your wife, or you're talking about when she says like, what happened to you yesterday? Like, I was expecting you to call me at four and like, that didn't happen. You know, and we're, we're like both on the road and I need to hear from you, or something like that. So people want like a very concrete thing. And, um, step us through that. Mm.
Phil Franks: Yeah. Let me think about one that, um, comes up actually very relevant. Uh, this week actually. In fact, last night we kind of closed the loop on it. Um, so lately we've been going through kind of, um, we went through a, a big focal period in our life where we had a lot of initiatives. Uh, having our second child building our life home, all these things were kind of gravity pulling us into these focus thing, which created experiences and things that we had to work through in, in their own right. And now we're kind of expanding back out. We're opening ourselves back up and feeling that expansion after this contraction and this, this big focus. Um, and one of the things that I am, I'm really good at, and as, as part of like my natural propensity or the way that I move, is I have a lot of like, big ideas.
Phil Franks: I have a lot of big ideas that I like to put out. And in some personality tests, I would be considered the maverick. I have a lot of things that can like, be visionary. Um, and in some respects that's good, good. But in other respects, it's not so good. And with my wife, she's a, she's rooted, she's very deeply rooted. She likes to be in the ground, have stability. Change is very chosen. If it's kind of like brought upon, even in the, even in the sense of conversation, it's hard sometimes to deal with that in our relationship because we kind of have different ebbs and flows. Um, and so this week I had a chance to express to her, because I had been compartmentalizing for some time because of my fear of how that might affect her, of things that we could do. And as in our family, things that we could do in our lifestyle, uh, things that we could do in our business that were more big.
Phil Franks: They were bigger, they were things that would need to be created, uh, put energy initiative behind. Um, and we had agreed as a couple, as a part of our, a part of our intentions for the year was that we were gonna be rooted this year, that we were gonna be rooted, that we were gonna go deeper into what was, what already was, instead of expanding into things that were not. And so I felt like I couldn't express those ideas to her. I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't share those things because it would be, um, treated like the old pattern. Like, whoa, this is too much. It's gonna blow the tree around too hard. We're gonna get shaky, and the environment's gonna get dis harmonized at home. And last night she came back, she came into my space where I was in, we had a chance to talk.
Phil Franks: And instead of kind of holding onto that, I looked at her and she has a very, very good way of being able to recognize my energy. And she invited the space and I said, Hey, I would like to talk about, uh, the way that I feel. I would like to talk about the way that I feel right now. And that is that I cannot express these ideas that I feel energized by in the environment we're in. And maybe that's something that I'm creating as a story, but it's also something I'd like to work with you on so that we could come together around how those are delivered, um, how deep we want to go on them, or even like what they mean for me. 'cause a lot of the times those ideas, if I put something on the table, um, the initial response might be, oh, we, it's gonna happen. As opposed to just, just an idea that is going to be something that we can kind of dance around and work within, collaborate on together. Coly. Um, so
Dr. Robin Stern: I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in for a minute. Yeah. Before, um, before you made this, uh, agreement with yourself and, and with your wife to, um, be rooted, be more rooted this year, and not bigger, but, but, um, gathered, if you will. And, um, before you, um, had the opportunity to name the gaslighting that you would not normally do or typically or used to do. Yeah.
Dr. Robin Stern: What did that gaslighting look like? And the reason I ask that very often when there's a conflict, um, and it's uncomfortable and you don't feel like expressing your feeling, you'll either one, will either, um, make light of the conflict on the other side. Like, come on, this is not a big deal. Or, come on, can't you just do X, Y, Z? Or, um, mm-hmm. Obviously you don't really understand what I'm saying. Mm-hmm. Like, or you're not listening or, um, you're wrong. Mm-hmm. I know you're wrong. You know you're wrong. Why do you keep denying it? Or it's your fault, it's your fault that we're having this conflict, because you are not able to come to the table openly. You are not able to take in, myy is your fault, but actually it's you who are constricted, or perhaps it's you who are unwilling and you are not willing to come to the table. So I could imagine the scenario prior where that was happening, and now you are avoiding all of that gaslighting by coming to the table. So how close am I?
Phil Franks: Very close. In fact, um, the word that I would, that I would say, maybe not, not expressed, but it was blame where I would, where I would kind of not, maybe not voice that, because again, part of that harmonizer for me was like not creating rifts. So I would internally be blaming her for the state that we were in. Um, but we have, we did go through a point in our relationship where, um, there was a lot of things that had to come to the surface that was from holding onto that, that blame. And what came out was like, the next word that I'm going to say is my expectation of her being like me.
Dr. Robin Stern: Hmm.
Phil Franks: So, I, early in, early in our relationship, well, before I had any of the, the language or the, the depth in the work that we're doing today, um, I would cast the expectation blanket onto her to perform like me. And so I would voice that now, and the ideas that I would share, and the way that I would communicate, and the way that I would kind of like hold an expectation about where we were going and how we were doing things. It was so, there was so little empathy and so little caring of like her gifts and her superpower and the way that in which she could, could do, because I was scared to let go of the thing that I was doing. And mind you, I do think that this is more prevalent and happens when you are potentially experiencing change. When you are, when you are going through change, and when you are feeling something and you are avoiding that feeling and trying to hold onto the version that was you, you will hold onto those characteristics of yourself and project those even even louder as a way to keep myself safe. And that's what I was doing. I was trying to keep myself safe in inside.
Dr. Robin Stern: I'm going to be really assertive and, uh, maybe aggressive. And, uh, and just stop you there, because I really, really want you to say that again. Um, I really want people to hear that, um, it's a way to keep you safe. Mm-hmm.
Phil Franks: Um, because it's familiar. It's, it's, it's familiar. And you, I think, again, the collective view, I think you and myself in this instance, um, the change is so uncomfortable that you hang on to this, just this programming, this kind of pilot that's been running for so long. And that expression, especially when it's amplified, you're looking for validation to make yourself feel the way that you need to feel to validate either not going into something or for the pain or even the joy that you feel. And that's what I was doing, is that we were going through a major transition. I mean, we had just left all anchors to financial wellbeing. We had just had a child, uh, there was all this, there was postpartum, there was all the hormonal and biological things that were happening, not only with her, but also with me. Um, there were all these kind of like, uh, what we call like de tethering, like all the, the tethers were snapped and we were kind of floating around in the ether. And in that time it became very scary because like, you didn't have any of those tethers anymore that grounded you. And without that grounding, I think that's when you just search. And similar to, um, the metaphor I use a lot is like, when someone's drowning, like when someone's drowning in those cases, what does that person do? They could be next to their children, they could be next to their mother, their father, and they're gonna use that person as an anchor to keep their head afloat.
Dr. Robin Stern: Yeah. So this is so important. Um, the metaphor, the, uh, um, the description, um, your, your authenticity and sincerity right this minute in, in telling us this. How did you recognize that it wasn't okay, what you were doing was not okay? Did you, um, I mean, aside from discovering gaslighting and me, and how did you know it was okay? Or did you not know it was not okay? Sorry. Did you not know it was not okay?
Phil Franks: Yeah. I think, I think in that mode and that change, um, you know, there was a lot of redefinition that was happening. There's a lot of redefining of who I was personally, who we were as a couple, who our, what our family was gonna be, um, what our business was gonna be. All these components of your life that are like kind of the, the, the bounds to a lifestyle. Um, were in the mode of being defined or redefined, uh, from what they were in the past. And what the seminal moment, I think I might've shared this with you in a previous conversation, maybe not, um, was that we were having a conversation one night and it got very heated. And it was in that expression of that fear. And that's what I know that it was now, is that that expression of gaslighting someone is actually a fear coming out.
Dr. Robin Stern: What was the gaslighting strategy you were using? Were you blaming her? Were
Phil Franks: You, you criticizing her? What it was the, it was the expectation word. It was the, it was that this expectation, I expect this, we should be doing this this way. The should, should, should, expect, expect, expect, project, project, project like that was coming out. But not once was I asking any questions. Not once was I asking, you know, how are you feeling in this? Or What's your vision? Or all these things. It was like, just get on board, like get on board with this journey because we need to. And that was the drowning thing. That was the drowning, because inside it felt like we were kind of like out in the ether untethered, and we didn't have anything to keep us afloat. And so it was kind of like keeping myself afloat by projecting that out onto her. Now, what I will say, to answer your question full circle, is that the defining moment wasn't any practice.
Phil Franks: It wasn't any modality. It wasn't gaslighting. 'cause it was well before, uh, getting to know you, you gave me kind of language for that action of my past. Um, but what it was was a feeling. It was a feeling. And, um, I think, and this has happened multiple times to me and my journey, um, is that the feeling becomes so strong. And I'm a very visual person. Um, I tend to get a lot of like, visual downloads, and I get a lot more of them now as, as I've become more tapped into self and life and the journey then they were so much, they were so less frequent. Um, but the vision that I got in that moment as we were both kind of crying in this, in this example and didn't know where we were going and touched the word of divorce, and like all these things, um, I remember I had a vision just come to me.
Phil Franks: It was like, like a lightning bolt. And the vision was like, I was on the sandy floor, and I looked up and like the ocean began, and there was like this gap that was like the height of me. And I was standing in between the gap, and I looked up at the ocean and I was like, you're on the bottom. Like, what are you digging for? What are you digging for? And the feeling was like, you don't wanna lose this. Like, you love this woman. You love your life. You love where you're at, you're scared. And it was a very, very, like, very I divine, um, energetic feeling that was like, it's time to go up. It's time to, it's time to go back up now. And that conversation like changed everything. It was that, it was that, and that, the thing that I want to say to your audience and the people that are listening is that that feeling came from adversity.
Phil Franks: It came from like immense pressure. And my, my expression of myself was not me. It was a, it was a fear state of me. But what came and I had to choose was I had to choose to listen to that whisper. I had to choose to listen to the whisper. That was my truth amidst the roaring of my fear. And like that dichotomy, like, your fear will roar, but your truth will whisper. And I know now that in my journey, my job is to tune things so that I can hear the whisper amidst all the roars that are going on. And that's the work that I do on myself that we do together as a couple. And now we get to express to the world, is being able to go in enough to say yes to those feelings that I felt and I felt in that moment with my wife,
Dr. Robin Stern: Oh, what a beautiful story and what a what a defining moment for you. And, um, I love that the, the whisper, listen to the whisper amidst the roar. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin Stern: Or what was happening on the other end? Because very often, and for the gaslight teas listening, they're I'm sure fascinated to hear that on the other end, there's a roar of fear mm-hmm.
Phil Franks: Yeah.
Dr. Robin Stern: So where was your wife?
Phil Franks: Yeah. So in that moment, thank you for that sentiment. I think that it is true. And what I've, what I've found is that, at least in our relationship, but I think in many, um, there's kind of an incestuous loop that happens. And that expression of my fear became then a trigger for her fear. And that fear for her is not an outward expression. It's a, it's a going inward. So it's a kind of shutting down. It's a going in, it's a shutting off the world from around. So my kind of continued kind of projecting, kind of shoved her deeper into herself, but also deeper into her fears, which were things like worthiness and enoughness and all these things. And so obviously you can see now how that incestuous loop would work in our relationship. Not, not so much anymore. It's present now. We have many more tools, obviously, uh, to work through that. And we do, hence the story I told a, a minute ago. But that expression to that me coming out and pushing versus her kind of going in and going deeper into her fear. So it was less of her kind of coming back at me and more about her going into herself, but dealing with the demons that were from her traumas and the things that she was working on, uh, as she was growing.
Dr. Robin Stern: And that is just another, uh, version of the gaslight tango where, um, the gas cider is pushing mm-hmm.
Phil Franks: Yeah. I think that the, the big lesson for me, uh, that closed the loop was that, um, and this is, this is a word that many of us are familiar with, but that, uh, empathy is, is a channel for love, like empathy. Like, by, by me being just truly, deeply curious about her experience and wanting to learn from that and work, work with that experience so that we could harmonize, um, how we were, you know, like how we moved through life. I mean, bringing, bringing two lives together is such an undervalued and under-taught thing in our society. And that that idea that like two complete worlds and realities are crossing over. And in some, in a lot of cases, two sets of traumas and ex experiences and vital life things that have happened, you know, these are not things that we're taught how to do, but empathy and this curiosity and this depth and understanding your, your partner and your loved one, um, or people you work with, anybody else. Um, that is now the mode in which I, I operate. It's through deeply caring about understanding someone's space and where they're at, and their experiences, and how maybe things that, that I'm going through can be a teacher or a mirror, not for them to learn from me because my ego needs it, but because like, I think that's how life works
Dr. Robin Stern: And what a beautiful expression. Um, I'm thinking now that most of the time in gaslighting relationships, and sorry to cut you off, I know. No, please. But just what happens here,
Phil Franks: There
Dr. Robin Stern: Is empathy mm-hmm.
Phil Franks: Mm. I love where this is going. You, you and I are dancing, Robin. 'cause you're, you're pulling out what I was getting ready to, to, to share. Um, I believe, and this is deeply rooted in, in our movements today with Alan Key, with ourselves, um, that you must deeply understand yourself and what you want and what you value, those things will govern almost everything. Right. And so in that, in that, in that exchange, when I shared my story, what I valued is partnership. What I value is connectivity and love. A, a big life intention for, for me, is to be sitting on the porch in my old age, swinging in a rocking chair, you know, watching my children and my grandchildren while I'm holding christa's hand, right? Like, that's a vision of mine and vision, a shared vision of ours. And I know that, and I feel that that's not like a mind knowing, that's a felt knowing.
Phil Franks: And I, I think many of us are operating in life on autopilot or an obligation where we are cast out from the, from the constructs of learning and school. And then we go into a job and we do all these things. And the one question that that always blows my mind that that many have trouble answering, um, is what do you want? What do you want? And it's, it's interesting that we're not taught how to think about that. We're not taught how to define our own destiny and define our own versions of success, or even just know what this version of me wants,
Dr. Robin Stern: Or to trust that when you come upon it
Phil Franks: Yes, yes. To build trust in yourself, that this is true. And I know in the gaslighting relationships like that, trust is kind of ripped away because you are, you are being told that what you believe of is true of you is not true, and that you should believe this alternate reality. But I think, and what I know now is that if you have a deep understanding of yourself, that becomes much harder for anybody or anything to do to you.
Dr. Robin Stern: Well, what an incredible place to, to wrap up for today. So, um, I wanna ask you just before, uh, I give you deep gratitude, uh, out loud, which I guess I just did,
Phil Franks: I love this question. Thank you for the space to share. Um, what I feel to share in the moment is that regardless of circumstance, how hard or easy as it might feel, um, I want people to ask those deeply, uh, those deep inquiring questions of self. I want them to, to create space in their lives, to invest in what actually matters through that inquiry. Because I don't think that you get there unless you take the chance to go in and ask those questions. And what do I want is, uh, one of the easier ones. But going into the depths of understanding yourself to then come out, my life used to be completely lived on the outside. Everything that came to me that told me how to be a man, how to be a c e o, how to be all these things, I just kind of assumed like a jacket.
Phil Franks: I just put it on like a jacket. Cool. Thanks. Appreciate that. But it wasn't until that moment of energy where we were about to have life come into the world where I said, well, what do I want? And it was to be able to make breakfast with my children and be a present father. And those were the gateway drugs for me to continue to go deeper into myself to actually realize that my reality is merely a, a product of my own design. But I have to be able to be brave enough to go into myself and trust those things and spend time with those things to bring them out into the real world. And so, my gift to everybody, and my hope is that everyone listening, no matter what circumstance you're going through or situation you're in, that you are empowered and you do have the power because it's always been there. You just have to, you just have to remember that that gift is there, uh, and that you can define, uh, what it is you want out of this life.
Dr. Robin Stern: I love that. Thank you. And where can people find you and find out more about your work?
Phil Franks: Yes, totally. So, uh, I mentioned our podcast. We have a podcast called Unlocked. Uh, you can find it on Apple, Spotify, any major, uh, podcast platform. You can visit our firstname.lastname@example.org. Um, you can find us on Instagram, on YouTube. If you just search Alan Key, you'll see this logo, um, on there, uh, and reach out. We'd love to connect with people who are going through this journey or who are, who are wanting to deepen their work on self.
Dr. Robin Stern: Thank you so much, Phil, for sharing this space with me. Um, really was a joy. And, uh, to our listening audience, I know this has been a rich and meaningful conversation. And, um, thank you for coming to the Gaslight Effect podcast today. Um, join us next time. Thanks for joining me for today's episode. I hope you found it helpful and meaningful. If you want to listen to other episodes of the Gaslight Effect podcast, you can find email@example.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. And please leave a rating and a review. I also invite you to follow me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter. This podcast is produced by Mel Yellen, Ryan Changcoco, Mike Lens, and me. The podcast is supported by Gabby Kaoagas and Solar Karangi, all of my work and my upcoming book is supported by Susan Pettit Marcus Estevez and Omaginarium, also by Sally McCartan and Jackie Daniels. I'm so grateful to have many people supporting me and especially grateful for all of you, my listeners.