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Robin Stern (00:06): Welcome to the Gaslight Effect podcast. I'm Robin Stern, co-founder and associate director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence, and author of the bestselling book, the Gaslight Effect. I'm an educator and a psychoanalyst, but first and foremost, I'm a wife, a mother, a sister, aunt, and healer. And just like many of you, I was a victim of gaslighting. Please join me for each episode as I interview fascinating guests and explore the concept of gaslighting. You'll learn what it truly means to be gaslighted, how it feels, how to recognize it, and how to understand it, and ultimately how to get out of it.
Robin Stern (00:55): Before we begin, I want you to know that talking about gaslighting can bring up challenging and painful emotions. Give yourself permission to feel them. Some of you may wanna go more deeply with your emotions. While some of you may hold them more lightly, no matter what you're feeling, know that your emotions are a guide to your inner life. Your emotions are sacred and uniquely you respect and embrace them for they have information to give you. If you want to listen to other episodes of the Gaslight Effect podcast, you can find them@robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for being here with me.
Robin Stern (01:38): Welcome everyone to this episode of the Gaslight Effect podcast. I'm delighted that my friend and colleague, Stacy Kino, is with me today. I know it's gonna be a rich and exciting conversation. Welcome, Stacy. Thank you for having me, Robin. My pleasure. Really. Um, I'm gonna say just a few words about you and then ask you to say a lot more about yourself and your work, and then to get into the amazing book that, um, you co-authored Emotional Inflammation, a book that is right on time for these times. So for those listening, Stacy is a health writer, a uh, psychology writer, a nutrition and fitness writer for, um, for national magazines. For many years I've been interviewed very well and graciously and generously by Stacy for many years as well on topics like emotional intelligence and gaslighting. And, um, I have always found our interviews to be incredibly, um, meaningful for me. And you ask questions that other people don't ask, and you have insight that I think is really wonderful, and I just really appreciate you being a journalist out there in the world. And, uh, you are published in US News and World Report, real Simple Prevention Parade. Oh, more Health Family Circle, women's Day. And I could go on. So you certainly have a amazing career as a journalist, um, for health and psychology. I'm gonna let you say more about yourself and then to introduce us to your book, emotional Inflammation.
Stacey Colino (03:13): Thank you, Robin. So, I've been a health and science writer for many years, and, um, one of the reasons I like it so much is I feel like I am in a perpetual grad school program. I continue to learn about the human experience, about the mind, the body, the interplay, and I write about subjects that are very relevant to all of us. And so it's very gratifying to me too. So most recently, in addition to US News and World Report and Prevention, I've been writing for time and National Geographic, and I also write books on the side. And, um, as you know, I wrote, uh, emotional Inflammation a few years ago, and it came out right at the beginning of the pandemic. And at the time we thought, wow, this couldn't be a better time for this. I would argue that right now is the best time for this, and I wish it had come out right now as we're living through so much upheaval.
Robin Stern (04:19): Yeah, thank you, Stacy. So tell us a little bit more about the inspiration to write emotional inflammation. Yes. We were in COVID, uh, a lot of people experienced COVID, a lot of great thought leaders experience COVID. And yet you and your co-author who is, um, Dr. Uh, Lee Van, right? Mm-hmm. Um, Dr. Lee Van Susteren. And you decided we have to write about this particular phenomena, and everyone was anxious. Everyone was dealing with a world that was unpredictable out of control and, um, with no end in sight.
Stacey Colino (04:57): That's right.
Robin Stern (04:58): And even more so, as you say, we're living it now. And for, uh, there's affecting people all over the country at every economic level right now. Absolutely. And, uh, and certainly bears on your health and, um, wellness and people's sense of stability and feeling, um, whole and, and secure. But you went, you took the next step, you said, okay, so I'm seeing this, and yet naming it and writing about it is another step. What made you decide to do that?
Stacey Colino (05:35): When we started working on this, it was at the tail end of the first Trump administration. Hmm. And so there was a lot of, um, upheaval then, lots of feelings of being unsettled. Um, the climate crisis was sort of reaching, I can't even say a peak because it's still climbing. Um, but social upheaval and, um, racial justice issues were coming to the fore and ev everybody in our universe, in our social orbit felt like they were playing a game of whack-a-mole. As soon as they reacted to one crisis, another popped up, and people's attention was so divided, and they felt like they were on high alert all the time. So Lisa and I started talking about what this looks like, and, um, we came up with the na with the term emotional inflammation, which is something I believe we coined. It hadn't been named before,
Robin Stern (06:33): But what made it, what was different about this than, um, saying the, the world is very, people are very anxious or, um, people are, uh, experienced something that could be potentially traumatic for them. And, and, um, why the need for this new term?
Stacey Colino (06:53): That's a good question. Well, it's kind of extra, as the kids would say, you know, it's not just being super stressed out. It's not just being really anxious. You're living in this state of perpetual high alert, and you're emotional reactivity is higher than it is normal. And so it's kind of a different phenomenon that way. And not only are you reacting to what's happening in the world, but that is superimposed on your own personal struggles, whether it's financial or related to career or family problems. And so it's kind of a different, it's a different model in the sense that there are lots of layers to it.
Robin Stern (07:37): Yeah, I, I completely agree. Um, for our p for our listeners, can you please explain, um, what you mean by high alert? Living on high alert all the time?
Stacey Colino (07:48): You're kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know, you're just looking for, it's like what people do with doom scrolling, you know, they're waiting for the next crisis to hit or the next piece of bad news. They're just sort of highly attuned to sources of stress that are coming their way or that are just happening in the world and upsetting them.
Robin Stern (08:11): So in your book, emotional Inflammation, uh, you talk about the fact that, uh, yes, it's important to define what's different now as you're saying, people are on high alert in addition to anxiety and depression, whatever else is going on in response to, to COVID, um, at that time and now to the world daily. But you went further and said, okay, we're gonna give you something to do about it. And the thing to do about it, your, you use the acronym restore and, uh, take us through that acronym.
Stacey Colino (08:47): The R in Restore is about recognizing your own feelings. And that is super important because as you have told me for so many years, you have to name it to tame it.
Robin Stern (08:57): Yes.
Stacey Colino (08:58): You know, and you have to sort of name the animal that you're dealing with in order to be able to cope with your feelings. Um, and then the next step is to evaluate your triggers. What is eliciting these feelings, which triggering them? Um,
Robin Stern (09:15): You mean like listening to the news or having conversations? Yeah. Mm-hmm
Stacey Colino (09:19):
Stacey Colino (10:17): The t is think yourself into a safe space. Something that a lot of people do is when they hear bad news or read about something that's upsetting or just experience something upsetting, is they, um, catastrophize or they go into negative thinking mode. And that just makes it so much worse. It's like throwing gasoline on the fire. So it's really a matter of kind of like reclaiming the way you think and directing it in a more constructive direction. Um, the o is about obeying your body, and that is really, um, about taming your stress levels and also taking care of your gut mic microbiome, which is increasingly implicated in mental health disorders and just stress responses in general.
Robin Stern (11:14): I'm so glad you wrote about that because I'm reading more and more about the biome and, um, I have a friend who has MS and she's been talking about biome for so many years as, uh, implicated in so much more than people give it credit for.
Stacey Colino (11:30): Absolutely. And it's actually implicated in physical inflammation as well as what we call emotional inflammation. There's sort of a two way street between the gut microbiome and the brain in terms of stress responses. Yes. And that's really interesting.
Robin Stern (11:48): And then reclaiming the gifts of nature, what do you mean by that?
Stacey Colino (11:53): So one of the things, and this was so prescient honestly, um, because we wrote this before the pandemic, but one of the things that people found during the pandemic that was really comforting was to go out and spend time in nature, go for a nature walk or a hike, or listen to the sound of the wind rustling the trees. Um, and there is something, there's this whole school of thought about biophilia and our natural, um, connection to the natural world that we all have. And it has a calming effect on multiple, multiple levels. You may have heard about, um, the benefits of forest bathing in Japan, for example. It's so interesting. So people go out in nature and it, they're not literally taking a bath in nature, but they go into, um, the woods, for example. And they really pay attention to the sensory input they get there, the sites, the sounds, the smells, and there are all these elements in nature that affect us in calming ways.
Stacey Colino (12:58): And then, um, so we're up to r And so the last one is really about exercising your power and framed a little or expressed a little bit differently. It's really about controlling what you can control. You know, we can't control what's happening in the world to a great extent right now, but we can control what's happening right in front of us. We can also take steps as a lot of people are doing to express ourselves. Like people are going to rallies right now and writing to their congress people and their senators saying, I object to this. Please do something about that. And that sense of action is part of the antidote to emotional inflammation.
Robin Stern (13:43): How does that work? I mean, I I understand it. I'd like you to explain it to, um, uh, to our listeners.
Stacey Colino (13:53): Well, I think it gets you out of the victim mentality. You know, you realize that you are, um, an effective person, that you can make a difference, even if it's on a small level. And every little bit helps. And so it just kind of shifts your focus, it shifts your mentality and it makes you feel empowered as a result.
Robin Stern (14:18): I think that's, that's so important. And, and I agree with you that a agency in these moments, um, uh, is really important. And I know, um, the connection that I I'm coming to next is with moral injury and moral stress. Yeah. And distress. And no, you and I have talked quite a bit about that. And what I hear from people is, uh, yes, action is important, and yet when you continue to take action and everything is still the same, what happens then? What happens to your inflammation then? Do you, are you still, um, feeling it as acutely or does it get higher because you're then acting and you're supposed to feel better, but you don't feel better 'cause nothing is being done? Or is it back to that, that, um, let's see where whichever letter says, control what you can control. Oh,
Stacey Colino (15:15): Exercise your power
Robin Stern (15:17): That, thank you. So, yes. Is it really back to that notion of radical acceptance, that you just have to accept that there are some things that you're not gonna be able to control. Does it mean you should give up acting because your acting is not only about wanting the consequence, it's about living your integrity?
Stacey Colino (15:35): That's right. That's a really, really good question. And it's got a complicated answer, I think. Um, I think at a certain point, you know, if you're not making any headway on a particular issue, it's kind of like banging your head against the wall. And I think it is important to accept that maybe you can't affect change in that particular area, but you can, again, shift your focus and find something else to work on. And I think that that's important. So you don't wanna keep doing the same thing if it's proving to be fruitless, because that does feel very demoralizing. But if you shift your focus and find something else where you can take action and potentially make a difference or affect change, I think that's worthwhile.
Robin Stern (16:19): Yeah, I, I agree with that completely. And I, I'd love to take us into now what I, what I call my lane, which is relationships and gaslighting and, and the subject of this podcast, and in particular with the connection to being on high alert. So often in relationships, especially in gaslighting relationships, as they get worse, people are on high alert. And do you think, um, that the term emotional inflammation could apply to a relationship of two?
Stacey Colino (16:55): Absolutely. Absolutely. And as you know, and as you and I have discussed, gaslighting can occur in so many different relationships. It can occur in a friendship, a romantic relationship at work. It can occur with your doctor in the medical arena. And so when it happens in any one of those areas, you can sort of get defensive and put yourself on high alert to kind of prevent other flare ups from happening. And it takes a toll. I think that your stress reactivity becomes heightened. Um, you know, there's sort of a sensitizing effect where you might even react more intensely to the next insult or injury that comes along
Robin Stern (17:50): Very interesting. I wonder if there's a point at which then the inflammation just stays steady. It's like, okay, this is, this is your diagnosis and you're inflamed and this is what it's gonna look like. You're going to be on high alert, you're going to feel sick, you're going to whatever your version of that is in your body. And, um, you kind of get used to that and it's your new normal. What happens when emotional inflammation is our new normal? 'cause I think a lot of people are living it, which is why we're talking about moral distress.
Stacey Colino (18:22): Yes, I agree. I think a lot of people are living it. It's very unhealthy, you know, and it's not just psychologically unhealthy. Um, it's physically unhealthy. It can affect the way you sleep, the way you eat, the way you take care of your body. And it can also lead to stress related symptoms, whether it's headaches or, um, acid reflux flareups, or you name it, anything that has a stress connection. And so I think it's important for people, again, going back to that initial r to recognize what they're feeling and what they're going through and take steps to, um, cope with it and improve it on one level or another.
Robin Stern (19:05): One of the questions that, that I have now, that is something that I ask myself all the time. So I'll ask you, what are the questions that you are living with about emotional inflammation? What are the questions that you still have about emotional inflammation?
Stacey Colino (19:22): I think one of the things that I am particularly interested in is it's become easy for me to recognize sort of the intense emotional inflammation, but I'm interested in what some people call microtraumas or microaggressions, sort of the more subtle forms that can also kind of get under your skin and stay with you and the effects that that has. So
Robin Stern (19:50): Can you give us an example of what you mean by that? Like a microtrauma, like just somebody
Stacey Colino (19:56): Lashing out at you at work, for example, or, um, misconstruing something you say in a social situation and misrepresenting your point of view. And that can have sort of social ripple effects. I mean, it can come in a lot of different forms. Um, name calling, for example, can be in a microtrauma, um, gaslighting in a very, very mild form, I would say, you know, such as inti. Well, one of the things that you and I have talked about is the differences between gaslighting, harassment and intimidation. And I would say intimidation in a low level form can be a microtrauma or microaggression. So, um, I'm interested in sort of the more subtle forms and manifestations and how they affect you.
Robin Stern (20:48): Sure. And that's where actually naming something can be so helpful for people because, you know, maybe it's not, um, no, it's not that I'm really anxious and it's not a trauma, but, right. Um, what is it? And it's somewhere in that space between being your normal anxious, having a normal amount of anxiety for you, whoever you are, and feeling PTSD or, um, wondering if you're experiencing PTSD without necessarily even being able to identify the trauma. Right. And, um, and it, it is in that space of, I like the term high alert, because you are, you're always on edge. There's just an edge that everyone's living with. And when I find these days when people say, you know, how you doing? Or How are you, it, it's hard to find an answer on the other side besides, you know, the world's a crazy place, or, um, I'm scared, or, uh, I don't know, actually. Or there's a lot of stress. And so that's the typical greeting then people are living in a different level of, um, vigilance.
Stacey Colino (22:01): Absolutely. And the other response I hear sometimes is, I'm doing the best I can. Yeah. I'm doing okay. All things considered.
Robin Stern (22:10): All things considered.
Stacey Colino (22:11): It is a different backdrop. It's a different context. So back to the, um, trauma issue. One of the, the questions I like to ask sometimes when something bad happens is, is this a big T or a little t
Robin Stern (22:24): Yeah. Mm-hmm
Stacey Colino (22:26): And
Robin Stern (22:26): Or is it trauma at all?
Stacey Colino (22:28): Well, that's true too. Or is this just a form of upset, you know, if you can name it something else. Or, um, is this just bad news? You know, it goes back to that naming it to taming it. Taming it.
Robin Stern (22:40): Exactly. Idea. Yeah.
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Robin Stern (23:31): One of the things that that maybe feels like an obvious question is like, if you can't turn off the news or you, you really want to watch the news because you wanna be informed, you wanna be in the conversation because of I Alert or whatever else, maybe a social reason or educational, you're in school, it's current events. What do you recommend for people to, uh, steady themselves, to gather themselves to, um, to approach the moment without, uh, turning off the news and at the same time without being inflamed all the time?
Stacey Colino (24:12): That's a good question. I think one thing that people can do is really focus on their breathing while they're watching the news so that they don't inadvertently contribute to their reaching a state of high alert. If you calm your breathing and you breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth slowly, it calms your stress response even as you're exposed to something that is upsetting. I think also doing things maybe afterwards, after you've read something or seen something on the news that's really upsetting, go for a walk or go for go exercise. Exercise is so important just for the state of high alert and for emotional inflammation in general.
Robin Stern (24:56): Yeah. And what about social support? Something that we always lean into at our center when we're talking about strategies to manage yourself?
Stacey Colino (25:05): Yep. That is super important. But one of the things that I'm finding recently is, um, there's a danger when you surround yourself with like-minded people and you have similar values and you talk about what's happening in the world, it's reassuring on one level because you feel a sense of kinship and like you're not alone, and there's comfort in that. But it's very easy to kind of slip into co rumination where you're just replaying the bad news and the potential repercussions and going down that rabbit hole of what if and what if and what if and that can be harmful.
Robin Stern (25:45): Yeah. So what do you recommend instead or what, how do you recommend people, I mean, this sounds like something we'd be talking about for a column. How do you respond to people who wanna engage you in these conversations and yet, uh, you don't wanna play?
Stacey Colino (26:02): Yeah, it's tricky. So I actually experienced this yesterday with two friends who were very politically like-minded to me and very, we live our lives very similarly, and one of them really wanted to sort of talk about everything that's happening in the country and what she's worried about and what we tell our kids and so on. And I sort of said, okay, you know, let's play, let's do this for 10 minutes, but then let's move on. Like, set a time limit so that it doesn't take over your time together. So when you move on to other things that you both have in common and that you're passionate about in your own life and you're sharing those, it reminds you that all the doom and gloom that's happening isn't the entirety of your life, that you actually do have good things going on, and that helps kind of counterbalance it and that helps with emotional inflammation.
Robin Stern (26:55): Yeah. And so the, I I just to I add on to what you're saying, um, the additional benefit of like getting involved in a conversation about, I don't know, maybe a meal that you're planning to, to make with your family and you're excited about it, or, um, something like Passover Easter or another holiday coming up that maybe, um, you're excited to see a particular relative. Uh, the added benefit is the emotional benefit that it puts you in a state of positive affect rather than Absolutely. Rather than, I mean, of course, if you think about the other relatives that you're not so excited to see
Stacey Colino (28:01): Yes, absolutely. I'm sure you're familiar with this research, some of which has been sort of, um, debunked or challenged that suggests that there's sort of a numerical ratio to flourishing versus languishing. Some people think it's a five to one ratio, some people say it's three to one, but the point is, if you kind of stack the deck toward positivity instead of negativity, it keeps you in a better state.
Robin Stern (28:32): Yeah, yeah, definitely. The other, um, image that is often talked about is if you water the, the flower, the positivity flower, um, that's where you put your water in can and it's gonna grow if you water the negativity flower, I'm probably saying it in, I like that poetic way, but, you know, um, I think we're saying the same thing. I think it's important. Mm-hmm
Stacey Colino (29:35): Well, I'm not just saying this because I'm talking to you, Robin, but honestly, one of the things that's been top of of mind recently is the whole issue of moral injury. Because I have a son who is on the verge of graduating from college, and his state of mind, he's, he's a sensitive kid. He is very bright, he's very creative, but he is fairly outraged by what is happening in the world, and in my opinion, rightfully so. And so I think with younger people in particular, it's very easy for them to kind of go down the path of like, well, what's the point? You know, um, everything is a big mess. What is the point of my pursuing this career? Or am I doing X or Y or z? And, you know, it's kind of a defeatist attitude, and I think that the defeatist attitude is kind of coming to the fore in some sectors in general, not just among younger people. And so I've been thinking about that a lot.
Robin Stern (30:38): What do you say to him?
Stacey Colino (30:39): Well, I say to him some of what we've been talking about, like, you still have control over your, um, immediate orbit, and you can decide what you're gonna pursue. You can pursue something that's personally meaningful, and you can potentially make a difference in some part of the world, whether it's providing something, a creative piece of writing to take people out of their head space or, um, volunteering for, um, a social justice issue that you believe in. There are different ways that you can make a difference, and some of them are just small. So I don't know if I've ever told you this, but one of the things that I do on the side when I'm not writing, I'm also a certified health coach and fitness professional. So I teach three spinning classes a week and three Pilates reformer classes a week. One of the things that people keep telling me, which is so gratifying to me, especially lately, is how much of a difference it makes in their everyday life right now, and I'm not saying this to toot my horn at all, but you know, I have a very welcoming, um, style, a very, you know, friendly, positive style in my classes.
Stacey Colino (31:56): I don't drive people into the ground, I don't criticize people. And it has created a real sense of community and friendships have been born within these classes, and I've made friends with the, from these classes, the two women I went out with last night, I met through my classes. And knowing that you're making a difference in somebody's life, even one person can help you get over that defeatist attitude, it can help you feel empowered.
Robin Stern (32:24): I think, again, that's so important. We, we have a strategy, um, in the How we Feel app that, uh, my colleagues Mark Bracket and Ana, uh, Kovich Pringle and I worked on with a, an incredible team from, um, Ben Silverman of Pinterest and his, uh, outstanding designers and techie people. Um, the, and we teach emotional intelligence just to finish that, that concept in that sense. But, um, we, there's something called kindness vitamin take a kindness vitamin, you know, the kindness I
Stacey Colino (33:00): Like that
Robin Stern (33:01): Is you do something kind for someone else, right? Yep. And you can also do something kind for yourself. But it, it is a strategy that, that heals. It's a strategy that makes you feel good. It sends positive vibes. So your body to, to do something kind for yourself or particularly for someone else, I find,
Stacey Colino (33:22): Yeah, I agree with that. And related to that, I also think it's really important for people to exercise compassion both towards other people and towards themselves. So often people are so hard on themselves and they say things to themselves in their heads that they would never say to a friend. And that is really important, especially right now.
Robin Stern (33:47): Yes. And we teach self-talk, um, in a particular way. Uh, if somebody asks us, sometimes we just talk to ourselves, I got this, it's gonna not gonna take forever. This won't last forever. I'm gonna be good. But sometimes we need to talk to ourselves, like we talk to a friend like, Robin, you've got this. And somehow using, putting yourself in that, uh, friend category, that third person can make a big difference. For some people,
Stacey Colino (34:15): It really can.
Robin Stern (34:17): I'd like to go back to your son and that age group or, um, our kids really, uh, and what makes moral injury different for them, um, or do is, is the moral injury and moral distress different? And I know my son who is getting his doctorate now at Hopkins in er, in, um, climate and um, uh, um, the physics of the ocean a few years ago, it was the most exciting thing. I'm like, what kind of career could you pre be pursuing that's more important in the world? And now he lives with the knowledge that with, uh, people surrounding his school, I mean, he's in Baltimore, but people in Washington surrounding his school thinking that there is a climate hoax. What does that mean for his department for the future of climate? And, uh, so even at the level of what you're studying, what can you do in the world there, as you were saying, there is that, uh, stress?
Stacey Colino (35:28): Absolutely. Well, I think that, um, there are a couple of things. One is if it's personally meaningful and interesting, that helps you continue to pursue it regardless of what other people are saying. Um, I think a big part of all of this is really tuning into your beliefs and your values to help you kind of get over the hump of the moral outrage or the deniers or whatever the obstacles are. Um, but to go back to your original question, I think one of the things, your son is a little bit older, but one of the things that is really, um, tricky for the 20 something generation, and I have two boys in that cohort, is that they are emerging from the academic realm into a world that is very complicated, that has a lot of problems, um, that's in upheaval in a lot of different ways. And they haven't been given the skills, the coping skills taught them for how to deal with this. And I think that is really a shame. I mean, some people talk about, um, the importance of teaching financial literacy to kids in school. I think we need to teach emotional literacy to kids in school.
Robin Stern (36:53): Well, of course you're speaking to the choir and we're doing it.
Stacey Colino (36:56): I know
Robin Stern (36:57): We're doing it now. We're in over 5,000 schools around the world and in the United States. And, um, and yet it's not enough. And what about those kids who we missed because we weren't in those 5,000? That's
Stacey Colino (37:09): Right.
Robin Stern (37:10): And you're talking about that generation because 20 somethings, some of them have had our work in high school, but most kids are emerging where I know this well because I used to be in a woman's, uh, a leader of a woman's, uh, leader, ethical leadership organization, where we found all the time that women in their twenties had dreams that outstripped their skillset. And so when you don't have the skillset, how do you pursue even the thing that gives you that sense of this is right, moral integrity, how do you do that? And, uh, it becomes really hard when there's frustration and disappointment and having to manage yourself along the way. So, uh, really, I, I agree that it's very hard for that particular cohort coming up and for cohorts coming up now in a different way.
Stacey Colino (38:05): So what are the ways through your program and through what you do personally, that you help instill those skills in people or that you want them to develop those skills?
Robin Stern (38:16): I mean, there's a lot of writing about the impact of developing emotional intelligence skills. Mm-hmm
Stacey Colino (38:42): Ah,
Robin Stern (38:43): And, uh, there are college campuses, some college campuses that have embraced this work. Um, but it's, right now, college campuses are, um, there are cutbacks everywhere,
Stacey Colino (38:55): Right? And more coming.
Robin Stern (38:57): It's not our, uh, our client, our client, our school systems, um, and where we've done the most research and the most work school systems be from preschool to high school.
Stacey Colino (39:10): Could you develop an app that would help people develop these skills?
Robin Stern (39:15): We've developed an app, um, called How We Feel,
Stacey Colino (39:19): Okay?
Robin Stern (39:20): Because our app can be useful, uh, to anyone, whether you are experiencing high alert days or just your regular old languishing days or your flourishing days, is developed by our team at the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence. And the people who I've been honored to work with at the center, mark Bracket, Kovich Pringle, and myself, worked on it mostly with the rest of the team. And, um, we were given a grant by, um, the former owner of Pinterest, Ben Silverman, to, uh, work with his team on what was originally called h how we feel, I believe. Um, at the beginning of the pandemic, they were taking the pulse on how people were feeling physically, and then Ben read Mark Brackett's book, permission to Feel. Yep. And after that, uh, he approached us and said, would we be interested in, in building an app with him? Mark and I had built an app many years ago that was the mood Meter app.
Stacey Colino (40:29): I remember that one.
Robin Stern (40:30): Yeah. And the mood meter was then built in. This is a, a mood meter on steroids.
Stacey Colino (40:36): Uhhuh
Robin Stern (40:37): Meaning that it is, um, both a mood meter and, uh, has pathways to build emotional intelligence. You can expand your vocabulary, you can approach emotions in a very granular way rather than, um, in a clumber way so that, uh, you can learn when you are exper, uh, are feeling upset that maybe you are actually frustrated or disappointed speaking entertainment. And, and so for people in their twenties or at any age, thirties, forties, and into elderly years, you can begin today by downloading the app on any platform, Android, or, um, if you have an iPhone, it's there and it's free in perpetuity. That's great. And not only do you expand your vocabulary, but you can learn interesting and fun regulation strategies to deal with your feelings. Like take a kindness vitamin or deep breathing or self positive self-talk. Um,
Stacey Colino (41:38): That's great
Robin Stern (41:39): Ways to do that. And, and so that you're not only learning about your emotions, beginning to understand what causes them. Each emotion has a psychological theme that we probably talked about when we talked about the mood meter years ago. And, uh, like injustice is the theme underlying anger or unmet expectations is the see the theme underlying disappointment. Um, so you begin to get a mental, mental model of those emotions as you experience in them. And, and the, uh, then when you can name them, you can pick out the best fit for you regulation strategy to deal with them. That's great. So at a time where people are experiencing stress and distress and moral injury, I definitely recommend checking in with your feelings, learning those strategies that feel right for you, and that work for that particular feeling and keeping track of your emotions. And, uh, one of the things that the app will do for you is to serve up a pattern of what your emotions look like last week or the week before. So you can say, gee, I, you know, maybe Monday mornings I should give up that breakfast with that group of people, or maybe Monday mornings I should always go to that breakfast because look how positive I feel after I've been there.
Stacey Colino (43:01): That's really smart.
Robin Stern (43:03): It's a wonderful tool. And there, there's a lot there, there you create little tags of who you were with or, um, what you were doing at the time. And, uh, and then you'll see that in your report
Stacey Colino (43:17): You find connections between what was happening in your life and what, how you were feeling.
Robin Stern (43:21): Exactly right. Exactly right. There's a lot to it. You have to explore it.
Stacey Colino (43:26): Yeah. So I really like that one of the things that we did in this book was, um, in terms of helping people recognize their emotions, we really tried to help people unpack their emotions so that they don't just stop and say, oh, I'm say I'm stressed and stop, or I'm frustrated and stop. So one of the things that we had people do was come up with a word cloud where they basically write down all the emotions they've been feeling recently, and then they can trace them back to some of the connections or the triggers.
Robin Stern (44:01): Interesting. I like that. Yeah, that's great. So your, your book is also a workbook, or it has activities in it? It
Stacey Colino (44:10): Has activities. It's not a workbook, but they do, there are exercises in there that you can do on your own pad of paper or,
Robin Stern (44:18): Yeah. That's great. I find that, um, when I am confronted with things like check in with yourself or, um, regulate your emotions, that filling out that better graph is really important.
Stacey Colino (44:37): Mm-hmm
Robin Stern (44:38): Because people may not know how to check in with their emotions, or they may, they may not know that there's a tool to do that. So thank you for asking me to talk a bit about how we feel. And, uh, I think that regulating your emotions and dealing with feelings, which is mark bracket's next big book coming out in the fall is, it's great. Yes. Deal with your feelings, but how do you do that Right. And which feeling, and what, what do you do about that feeling as opposed to some other feeling? So I, I'm looking at the clock and I see that we, um, I need to ask you now something that I like to ask as we're wrapping up, which is what's exciting for you in the next year of your professional life?
Stacey Colino (45:23): What's exciting for me? Well, I'm embarking on, um, a proposal for my own book, which I'll tell you about another time off the record.
Robin Stern (45:32): How wonderful.
Stacey Colino (45:33): Yeah. And, um, so I'm excited about that. And on a personal level, my husband and I have some exciting trips planned. Um, I think that this goes back to sort of the antidote to emotional inflammation. It's important to give yourself sort of experiences or, um, things to look forward to in your future, you know, on the horizon both soon and maybe in six months or next year or however time, whatever timeline makes sense for you. Um, so I'm doing that.
Robin Stern (46:10): That's great guidance, by the way. I think it really is very important.
Stacey Colino (46:15): It really helps. You need something to look forward to. You need that positive anticipation.
Robin Stern (46:20): Yes, exactly.
Stacey Colino (46:22): Yeah.
Robin Stern (46:23): I think it's really wonderful to have positive anticipation. Uh, where can people find you, Stacy?
Stacey Colino (46:31): So people can Google me, um, and find lots of, um, articles and, uh, books that I've written. They can, I don't have a personal website. They can find me on LinkedIn. Um, yeah, those are probably the best ways I'm on, um, Instagram, uh, I'm still on Twitter, I'm on Blue Sky. I would encourage people to find me on Blue Sky. Um, yeah. So I'm around.
Robin Stern (47:01): That's really wonderful. Well, I have so enjoyed this hour with you and, um, I look forward to hearing about your book. I'll definitely follow up with you about that, and we can follow up about how we feel if you'd like.
Stacey Colino (47:15): I would love that
Robin Stern (47:16): Very much on time. And, um, thank you, thank you for being my guest today and for the meaningful insight and the incredible work you've done through the years. I know only a slice of what you've written because I've been
Stacey Colino (47:39): Thank you for yours. And thank you for making yourself available to me when I wanna interview you. Your insights and your advice are always spot on.
Robin Stern (47:48): Thank you, Stacy, and thank you everyone for listening. I hope there are a lot of takeaways from today's episode, and I look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you very much.
Robin Stern (47:59): Thanks for joining me for today's episode. I hope you found it helpful and meaningful. If you want to listen to other episodes of the Gaslight Effect podcast, you can find them@robinstern.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. And please leave a rating and a review. I also invite you to follow me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter. This podcast is produced by Mel Yellen, Mike Lenz, and me. All of my work is supported by Suzen Petit and Omaginarium, also by Sally McCartan and Jackie Daniels. I'm so grateful to have many people supporting me and especially grateful for all of you, my listeners.
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